From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Dec 10 18:06:50 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40F1FE93626 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 18:06:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [217.72.192.73]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass DE-2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B79427AA60 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 18:06:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([92.195.18.98]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue104 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 0MFKXk-1eIXYA1itw-00EO5N; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 19:06:38 +0100 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 19:06:37 +0100 From: Polytropon To: "Thomas Mueller" Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: looks like I am no longer welcome around here Message-Id: <20171210190637.fd648800.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <201712101747.vBAHlV7Z002410@r56.edvax.de> References: <20171209135853.a6c104f5.freebsd@edvax.de> <20171209142711.d5bd91b7.freebsd@edvax.de> <4b109558-8422-a62a-9c45-748e03efbfba@columbus.rr.com> <20171209202321.b9919fc3.freebsd@edvax.de> <201712101747.vBAHlV7Z002410@r56.edvax.de> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:shjT1whFeAmWeeejX8BKwp+OMpx45+cBcpsvbJ0rPhcQQ7xkzf3 klOR2LjiezpRY4zHWpkPHONWXxlcm8XnnXyJYTboRBK/8ALMIaq3HaeOLBOrYoyM6wFxgAA Xffa/BGxVr0YnQsrjxcsf0pBLYHNHOgDUC9dS6ng0fM2nYpb3wBq2zwZvCjk273csabetzB GQriTh20ML+GHjTkzgvnQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:5o8LWUkmbnY=:j1VMRZHk3vVKS9KEk5k9pw 2xObQWhALpnG+7d8NOCDzdUQkeGi97TFNVgLMQ459ZGfo4MIE+RILu/MnqamysnacFYsl01dU MFVU/5+m6dkmev/kIn1jnUFHSewGt8OuPQnSyGTgb5a09gdhG+PmLEmg1SvzIHvhT37qGOCOa tAUaFgSNaSGNt7HABMrGXY6V6CeCVvSg4kUNKAROUAHJMGykjUtFsHD6zPXVyIPh7yV7I4KBW e0mbMYT+sYkkmE+ZyCC404xLXVws9Jy65N/nrG6kNYIiIVmwPx4S5MpLeIX2PSa4Kv8Q01iiQ HsUyTgI9K5q8jfCZe9vvNPevLFptMopmmS9k53kifEnZEK9U8AyoAOOYnJ3j9dV7yfHdAtMtr 5IG+Glxzw39sXc3/qMZ+o4Tojo0qCnpgvCcbvWHW+/q736tE0o6HUTP337dC/U0gNt2SonaNN kJWMGeu/1s9NKzhKlmfcWc/WFmul8RsQVdTs03Ib7LEHuqT/Z6fz6F6gxzMF18+yh9hxXBNK8 I8SwQbPZcK3XWLjdNzmF9MT0/AH8uxJjepvVJDJctSVWlzn+qv0lw1HfNJWcRCRelfmacNgXh JjE+pnH+40egcQsuP5jgSb87hB/+8A8tPXt/k2rPPA/X+o62/OtOBqVlTaIF/q8AGCiCpQMzE IRwFRVtnjXc08Szh0H7G2t9/CP4rZyDu8bVX5L8jEq2Acr+ZMB7HTNcxJ9VUAvOPYW59W07lG SsXuJpOaKIAyOicmojZmbg6IDfdANJJie5oHrLe/M770OnE2UKtnjb0fQ0o= X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 18:06:50 -0000 On Sun, 10 Dec 2017 10:12:52 +0000, Thomas Mueller wrote: > from Polytropon: > > > Please allow me a few comments regarding your rant (which has > > some valid point, but in my opinion illustrates a little lack > > of understanding of how some things on FreeBSD work): > > > > They don't like to be called out or have some one be critcal of the > > > "new" flavor system or any "new" thing that comes down the pike. It has > > > caused a butt load of issues with my systems here. > > > In that case, "they" would have kicked me more than once for > > expressing that I don't like the sc -> vt transition (which, > > as I might mention again, is one of the biggest show stoppers, > > because vt isn't a fully working replacement of sc, and it > > can do only a fraction of what sc could, and even that only > > at bad quality, and it's hardly documented). Now let's see > > what happens. :-) > > I remember the switch to vt was necessary to enable xorg to work; > this is also true in NetBSD; they call it DRMKMS. Exactly that is my problem: When I wish to be able to use both X _and_ text mode, my only choice is vt (and vt is the default now, sc will probably be abolished and maybe removed soon). But vt is unusable (and hardly documented) for use as a sc replace- ment. That what I'm complaining about. > Copy-and-paste by mouse in FreeBSD double-spaces lines; mouse > on console does not work at all in NetBSD. I think this is due to the UTF-8 inclusion... hmmm... > In NetBSD, I like booting into a 240x67 console; I can work > better than with 80x25 or 80x30. Then you won't have a problem with vt. However, users with limited sight or those who require a text (!) screen of 80x25 in order to drive a hardware Braille "display" or voice will no longer be able to use those devices with vt. There simply isn't text mode anymore. The strangest observation: When I boot my system, it starts in 80x25 text mode, then the loader is running, also in the normal text mode, then the kernel will boot, still in 80x25, then the screen will go dark for 5+ seconds, and finally arrive in tiny crappy font which I can hardly read. Changing the font does not solve the problem. So if you want to get back to 80x25 you need to get the right combination of screen size, resolution, and font. And note for those using a CRT: It simply doesn't have a fixed size in pixels... Summary: Time to say goodbye to 80x25 text mode and concentrate on using X terminals - simply because when you're running vt, you can run X, and setting up readable terminal windows is much easier in X. I will now get kicked off the list because of complaining. ;-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...