From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Oct 19 00:52:40 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7780F7AD54 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 00:52:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from doug@fledge.watson.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [204.107.128.30]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84CDF86AD0 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 00:52:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from doug@fledge.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [198.74.231.63]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DF823B4DBA for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 00:52:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from fledge.watson.org (doug@localhost.watson.org [127.0.0.1]) by fledge.watson.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id w9J0qXFd060862 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 20:52:33 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from doug@fledge.watson.org) Received: from localhost (doug@localhost) by fledge.watson.org (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id w9J0qXT6060858 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 20:52:33 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from doug@fledge.watson.org) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 20:52:33 -0400 (EDT) From: doug Reply-To: doug@safeport.com To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: freebsd packages going the debian way! In-Reply-To: <1a76bc80-9fb6-4731-66e0-1e07c38e8fc0@mgm51.com> Message-ID: References: <049b9e13-688c-39ba-9d77-50e630dc9b6f@kicp.uchicago.edu> <1845546f-470c-4a5f-7118-24cab613e4e0@mgm51.com> <20181015160900.767a01052e9642d87f6a3ba0@sohara.org> <1a76bc80-9fb6-4731-66e0-1e07c38e8fc0@mgm51.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (BSF 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (fledge.watson.org [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 18 Oct 2018 20:52:33 -0400 (EDT) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 00:52:41 -0000 On Mon, 15 Oct 2018, Mike via freebsd-questions wrote: > On 10/15/2018 11:09 AM, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: >> On Mon, 15 Oct 2018 10:58:53 -0400 >> Mike via freebsd-questions wrote: >> >>> What is the reason for not using ports and pkg on the same machine? >> >> There are a number of difficulties: >> >> 1: Making sure that your ports tree is in sync with the one used for >> package building. >> 2: Preventing pkg from replacing your ports during pkg upgrade (careful use >> of pkg lock is required) >> 3: Dependencies built with different options may not always work. >> >> I've found it fairly easy to handle a few leaf packages as ports >> more than that is likely to get fiddly. >> > > Thanks for the follow-up. > > I had been using ports and pkg on the same machine without issues, so I > was wondering what the reason was for the warning. > On servers, I can maybe see one or the other. On a workstation I think there is no practical option but to use packages for the base stuff: Xorg, desktop (xfce for me) firefox, and most of the xfce goodies. This is especially true if you are like me and can't/won't buy a workstation with a comma in the cost. I did this pre-pkg. pkg has helped immensely with (if not largely solved) the dependency problems. If you want firefox, chrome, gimp, libreoffice and the like on your workstation, it is going to be a challenge no matter how you build your system. In my experience these issues are not so intractable on servers. The fallout of making packages independent of release levels is yet to be fully realized. I wanted to use lynx and had to build it due to a missing module when the package was tried. The workstation I am using (11.1) has 568 packages/ports. In such an environment there will never be no dependency issues. Even in OS-land I had to roll this system back to 11.1 because 11.2 broke the WiFi support for the card my laptop uses. The OS guys face the same issues with hardware that the application developers face with graphics and other needed libraries. I think this is the world we choose to live in.