From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Apr 8 19:37:05 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 127D937B404 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 19:37:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sundance.wranglers.com.au (sundance.wranglers.com.au [61.88.122.34]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AA1743F85 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 2003 19:37:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from charles@wranglers.com.au) Received: from [10.10.0.35] (feynman [10.10.0.35])h392WW1A091891; Wed, 9 Apr 2003 12:32:33 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from charles@wranglers.com.au) From: Charles Young To: stevem@linuxmail.org Content-Type: text/plain Organization: digital Wranglers Message-Id: <1049855817.93999.84.camel@feynman> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2 Date: 09 Apr 2003 12:36:57 +1000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Replacing Win95 with FreeBSD for low cost home PCs X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: charles@wranglers.com.au List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 02:37:05 -0000 Hi Steve, A few points about your recent post. I'm sure several others have commented (presumably with similar issues) but I can't resist questions such as these. Before I start though, I must say I like the idea of replacing Win95 for a low cost home PC. However; don't forget that you have been through the pain of learning an OS and the installation tricks that make it simple to build a system. You probably think to yourself: 'oh, I think I'll build a few Win95 machines today' and know that at the end of the day the machines will work as expected. Don't forget the original pain before you got to this point, as you'll have to go though that same pain again. That being said the process can be fun and interesting - should you have plenty of coffee, unlimited time, and a few spare machines hanging around to replace the machine that you've just spent 15 minutes reconfiguring using the impact configuration method*. The first place for info is the freebsd handbook: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/index.html It is your friend. Now for some detail - and forgive me if I ramble on here: 1. Release - FreeBSD 5 is the CURRENT release, not the STABLE release. What does this mean? It means that you are trying to run what is essentially a beta release. This means that there will be all sorts of issues that a neophyte will probably not want to cope with. The release (at the moment) that you should be working with is FreeBSD 4.8. See http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/current-stable.html for more info. 2. Applications - Your clients will want to have a familiar workspace. This means a GUI (almost certainly XFree86), as you mention. Presumably you will also pre-load a desktop environment (Gnome or KDE) on top of XFree86 and then a set of user applications - such as abiword, openoffice.org, evolution, mozilla etc. I have set up this sort of thing for use in corporate Australia in four office now (averaging 17.3 workstations per office) and it is not as easy as you might think. I thought it was going to be bloody difficult to get everything right, and I was under prepared for the amount of time it took. What I've done is to set up a meta port of a workstation suite and then install this on each machine from a central dist site via NFS. I found there were fewer issues this way, though the build process can take a mighty long time. {note - if you do go down this path then *when you get to the point of building the meta-port* check out /usr/local/etc/pkgtools.conf . This file is your friend. Put all the makefile parameters here not inside your meta-port. That way you can upgrade specific ports individually and maintain the make parameters.} {note 2 - use CVS for your meta-port, support files and documentation. Otherwise you get into a version mess and ... I actually tag each installation that I do - though I'm finding tagging more and more unwieldy - I might get back to you about a better way of managing the process. Any suggestions from the list?} 3. Help - The freebsd users group in Sydney is a wonderful group of people. You can check them out on http://www.bugs.au.freebsd.org/ They are your friends. 4. System resources - This is going to be a biggie. XFree86 + environment will use significant system resources. This is not to say that a 'pentium/486 100mhz with 32 mb ram and 300-800 mb hdd' will not be adequate, however you will want to not build too many bells and whistles into your environment. Select a low resource window manager (such as metacity if you're using gnome) and make sure that your users have access to the tuning pages for their selected environment. Anything you do to reduce the memory footprint will be a Good Thing(tm). 5. Training: FreeBSD + GUI is not Windows 95. Your users will be confused and wary of changes. That being said, you can use window managers and themes to make the thing look like Windows and supply links to the documentation for your selected environment so that people can find out what the differences are. 6. User acceptance: I work in an office here where exactly half the folks use Windows2000 and the other half use FreeBSD. One machine is dual boot and, while it used to be mostly in Win2K, it now spends almost all its time in FreeBSD. Our clients are progressively happier with FreeBSD workstations. There are fewer issues with viruses, unexplained hangs and crashes and people regard their machines as 'faster'. But it takes time - particularly in replacing MS Word. In conclusion - I would suggest having a play with FreeBSD 4.8 and, if you like what you see, use a freebsd workstation as your primary machine for a while. Good luck, Charles * The impact configuration method usually involves a 5 kilo sledgehammer, but may involve defenestration or just a medium to large cliff. (Kanangra walls, Govett's leap or Sublime point would be perfect http://www.npws.nsw.gov.au/parks/metro/Met004.html) ------------- Charles Young digital Wranglers www.wranglers.com.au RE: Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 21:02:56 +1000 From: "Steve Moss" To: questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030408110256.11656.qmail@linuxmail.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi, Sorry to send a Q without fully reading the documentation, but I've tried linux before and I just get more and more confused. I'll briefly tell you my situation: I am living in Australia's Blue Mountains on a disability pension (I have asperger's syndrome) I know how to build a computer for about $70 good enough to run win95 for basic internet and typing etc, and I'm horrified that people on low incomes like me are paying over $1000 of money they don't have so their kids can do homework and they can email their old granny in ireland etc. So to make some pocket money and help people out I sell them for $140 all set up and connected to the internet. The obvious problem is the windows 95 factor - I'm breaking the law and, worse, using a dreaded Microsoft product. If I could use a free, open-source (or not) OS of equivalent power usage to 95 (i.e. goes good on a pentium/486 100mhz with 32 mb ram and 300-800 mb hdd)I'd be happy. GUI-ed Linuxes seem to need way too much power and f Freedos isn't ready (plus I had trouble with seal, gem etc as well as arachne). Apart from that I love DOS! So I got a CD of FBSD 5.0. I can't even find "makeflp" or whatever you write the boot disks with on Windows. (too old to boot from CD) (not me the computers). Is it worth me persevering with BSD? I do really need a GUI because my customers aren't that pioneering - they've emerged from the 2nd millenium like everyone else - as babies who can only point and click. So what do you think? Shall I go on to ask how to make boot floppies from my BSD cd? yours anticipatorily, Steve