From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 19 21:47:49 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F6C816A4CE for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:47:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from dyson.jdyson.com (dsl-static-206-246-160-137.iquest.net [206.246.160.137]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BA5243FDD for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:47:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.jdyson.com) Received: from dyson.jdyson.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dyson.jdyson.com (8.12.8/8.9.3) with ESMTP id hAK5lfXQ003760; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 00:47:41 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.jdyson.com) Received: (from toor@localhost) by dyson.jdyson.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAK5leFp003759; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 00:47:40 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200311200547.hAK5leFp003759@dyson.jdyson.com> In-Reply-To: <3FBC50DB.3000002@acm.org> from Tim Kientzle at "Nov 19, 2003 09:27:55 pm" To: kientzle@acm.org Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 00:47:40 -0500 (EST) From: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: richardcoleman@mindspring.com cc: masta@wifibsd.org cc: current@freebsd.org cc: dyson@iquest.net cc: Dan Nelson cc: imp@bsdimp.com Subject: Re: Unfortunate dynamic linking for everything X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:47:49 -0000 Tim Kientzle said: > Richard Coleman wrote: > > It seems /bin/sh is the real sticking point. > > There is a problem here: Unix systems have historically used > /bin/sh for two somewhat contradictory purposes: > * the system script interpreter > * as a user shell > > The user shell must be dynamically linked in order > to support centralized administration. I personally > see no way around that. Given that many users do > rely on /bin/sh, it seems that /bin/sh must be > dynamically linked. > It isn't necessary for the shell to be dynamically linked (efficiency issue WRT the sparse allocations and greater COW overheads/etc) for the shell to programmatically link in a module for optional feature sets. This can even be placed under a libc call (which then wouldn't encumber the shell unless the feature was active and increase the footprint of generally all libc routines.) John