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Date:      Wed, 30 May 2001 09:09:15 -0700
From:      Don Dugger <dugger@hotlz.com>
To:        Ted Mittelstaedt <tedm@toybox.placo.com>
Cc:        "Dr. Hein" <s.hein@spinner.de>, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: upgrades [each time more trouble]
Message-ID:  <3B151B2B.6232E53C@hotlz.com>
References:  <000101c0e91a$208e6bc0$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com>

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Let me start by saying that upgrading any OS is a problem. With Windoze
the bugs it introduces are hidden by the general buggy nature of the OS.
My customer on Sun usually wait until Sun no longer supports the version
there on before upgrading, and same with HP UX. Redhat has done a great
deal of work to make upgrades easier with varying success.

Having said that, I too feel that FreeBSD community has put less effort
in making upgrades easier. I started with FreeBSD 1.5 and some upgrades
went well and other gave me problems. In all cases they were an effort,
which I did not look forward to. There has been a project in work
towards this as far back as I've been using FreeBSD, but it seems not
mush progress has been made. I think this maybe due to the fact that the
effort has been to make the install easier rather then the upgrade
easier. I have seen HOW TOs, but there usually out of date with each
release. I tried writing scripts to reinstall the packages and ports,
but with release they had to modified.

Now having said that, I would rather use FreeBSD then any other OS. I'm
bring this up to see what others think and what sort of solution others
are using.

Don 8)  


Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> 
> Let me point out that many people, myself included, have
> production FreeBSD systems that are quite happy running _older_
> versions of FreeBSD.  I even have some 2.2.8 systems still
> running.
> 
> In my opinion the frequent upgrading is a Windoism that is a
> horrible habit introduced by Microsoft, because their answer is
> to release buggy software then correct bugs by introducing
> upgrades with other bugs.
> 
> In my opinion a normal healthy FreeBSD shop is going to have a
> mix of FreeBSD systems running different versions.  Do not upgrade
> your servers just because a new version of FreeBSD comes out.
> Instead only spend time upgrading them when you need to do something
> major such as replace hardware or something like that.
> If it aint broke, don't fix it!!
> 
> (obviously this wouldn't apply to special systems like firewalls,
> but it would apply to most general servers behind the firewall)
> 
> Ted Mittelstaedt                      tedm@toybox.placo.com
> Author of:          The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide
> Book website:         http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com
> 
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG
> >[mailto:owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Dr. Hein
> >Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 7:57 AM
> >To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG
> >Subject: upgrades [each time more trouble]
> >
> >
> >- my dear !
> >
> >Upgrading from one FreeBSD version to the next release,
> >which  I have repeatedly, successfully, and very happily
> >accomplished since FreeBSD Release 2.7  [each time with
> >an increasing set of troubles, though] seems to be by now
> >[with  release 4.3] a matter of high expertise. - At least,
> >it has apparenty become a task for persons, who have not to
> >care very much about time as I [a numerical analyst, who mainly
> >wants to run rapidly  his many applications]. In fact, I really
> >can't afford to look for - and chase through - hundreds of
> >loosely distributed man pages, only to get the line printer
> >up and running, for instance.
> >[I won't speak about the gloating grin of the Linux party liners
> >under my colleagues, observing me].
> >
> >To be concrete in some examples:
> >After installing  cups, for instance - why does the pertinent
> >printer setup and configuration tool [QT-CUPS, or CUPS WWW.admin.tool]
> >not automatically appear in the KDE  Task Manager  [as the two
> >do under Mandrake Linux, e.g.] ?
> >
> >Or:  past a regular apsfilter setup [completely done in the very
> >familiar way], why  leads the  first printer call [lp  file1, e.g.]
> >to an error message ['lp: error - no default destination available'
> >- without any further explication or indication to the non-expert,
> >where this may be cured of. - The printer 'lp' was explicitely
> >mentioned in the setup configuration] ? And why, by heavens!
> >is the 'default destination' of lp not simply made 'available',
> >possibly on request, on running apsfilter setup ?
> >
> >These and further [formerly not encountered] complications may
> >have their reasons and justifications. - What I, and certainly
> >some other average users, primarily notice is that FreeBSD
> >installation and upgrading is becoming each time less handy.
> >
> >In our company, I fight a hard struggle for the use and maintanance
> >of Open Source systems,  in general, and  FreeBSD, in particular.
> >With respect to the outcome of this battle I could be more optimistic,
> >if I hadn't to spend so many [and each time more] hours for
> >post installation/upgrade  tuning of FreeBSD - beside and
> >sometimes instead doing my proper job.
> >
> >With best regards,
> >
> >Steffen Hein,
> >
> >Spinner RF Lab, Munich
> >numerical department
> >Aiblinger Str.30
> >D-83620 Westerham,
> >Germany
> >
> >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> >with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
> >
> 
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