From owner-freebsd-arm@freebsd.org Wed Feb 26 22:19:45 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arm@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEF2A248899 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2020 22:19:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paul@gromit.dlib.vt.edu) Received: from gromit.dlib.vt.edu (gromit.dlib.vt.edu [128.173.49.70]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "gromit.dlib.vt.edu", Issuer "Chumby Certificate Authority" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48SVbM3tpTz3CTt for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2020 22:19:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paul@gromit.dlib.vt.edu) Received: from mather.gromit23.net (c-98-244-101-97.hsd1.va.comcast.net [98.244.101.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gromit.dlib.vt.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E60AD28A; Wed, 26 Feb 2020 17:19:39 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; delsp=yes; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Subject: Re: Showstoppers for RPI3 From: Paul Mather In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 17:19:39 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <7C971B68-5FA9-4AE6-9A1B-B3BB406A8215@gromit.dlib.vt.edu> References: <20200225175446.GA77976@www.zefox.net> <11951E01-EC13-4FBB-938A-AEB5700C4281@yahoo.com> <20200226052045.GA79939@www.zefox.net> <04e8e290e5d7bb810f76ece4ff33d6e1006e63cd.camel@freebsd.org> <9AF20341-AFCC-46BE-A2F2-96CF01655983@gromit.dlib.vt.edu> To: freebsd-arm@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 48SVbM3tpTz3CTt X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="No valid SPF, No valid DKIM" header.from=vt.edu (policy=none); spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of paul@gromit.dlib.vt.edu has no SPF policy when checking 128.173.49.70) smtp.mailfrom=paul@gromit.dlib.vt.edu X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.00 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[vt.edu : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[97.101.244.98.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.10]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(-0.51)[ip: (-1.28), ipnet: 128.173.0.0/16(-0.64), asn: 1312(-0.57), country: US(-0.05)]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.990,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:1312, ipnet:128.173.0.0/16, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arm@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Porting FreeBSD to ARM processors." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 22:19:46 -0000 On Feb 26, 2020, at 4:17 PM, Karl Denninger wrote: > On 2/26/2020 3:41 PM, Paul Mather wrote: >> All fair enough. I'm probably in the same boat as Bob Prohaska inasmuch >> as I have a couple of Raspberry Pi devices of varying vintages hanging >> around. I'm a longtime FreeBSD user, so, naturally, I prefer to run >> FreeBSD on these devices, and have done so for a while (with varying >> degrees of success/stability). >> >> It sounds from the above I shouldn't bother, for pain and misery will >> attend me all my days as a result. :-) >> >> If Raspberry Pi is a crappy platform and a bad choice to use, >> FreeBSD-wise, what is the suggested alternative in the same >> low-power/low-price (and Raspberry Pi-like spec) arena? Is it the >> Pine64 stuff like the PINE A64, ROCK64, and ROCKPro64?? >> >> I'm willing to buy something other than Raspberry Pi (I have a >> BeagleBone Black, for example), but I don't want to buy something that >> is derided and despised by FreeBSD developers and avoided by them like >> the plague. I am not an ARM/SoC or electronics expert, so I feel >> unqualified to know what is a "crappy ARM platform." >> >> Also, if the true situation with Raspberry Pi is that it is unlikely to >> see development within FreeBSD, it would be more honest to deprecate the >> platform officially on the FreeBSD site. I'd even go so far as to >> suggest not to distribute official images for it, as that carries with >> it a hint of blessing and support. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Paul. > > I'm not at all sure that's reasonably fair, to be frank. I thought given Ian's pretty frank appraisal of the "love" (or otherwise) of the RPi platform amongst FreeBSD developers, it was a reasonable conclusion on my part. :-) But, we can agree to disagree. I apologise if the last paragraph of my original post seemed overly despondent. > I have Pis in both the "2" and "3" vintage running what I consider to be > production (and important) code. Other than the issues that ALL Arm > platforms have (e.g. lldb doesn't work right, so have fun debugging > things) I've had zero trouble with it. In fact, I've got uptimes > recorded in the many-months timeframe, only limited by when the power > goes off and since I use them in a "NanoBSD" environment I don't much > care if/when that happens, since the things they talk to go off when the > power does too, and they've always come back up on their own. > > Are they perfect or even "excellent" platforms? Not really. The I/O is > a mess, but if you don't need more "oomph" in I/O capacity than they have > it doesn't matter (e.g. they make poor routers or firewalls, simply > because they don't have the necessary "oomph" through the network side of > things.) I agree with the above, and, over the long term, I've had great success with FreeBSD/arm and (to a lesser extent) FreeBSD/arm64 on various RPis. Lately, however, not so much---at least in the case of FreeBSD/arm64 on an RPi 3. I'm using this as a local backup target for Arqbackup via SSH. As of the last month(-ish), the system will go off into la-la land after a few days uptime such that it is only reachable via serial console. IIRC, the USB subsystem is complaining about missing/losing interrupts. (The error just keeps scrolling repetitively on the console.) I'm wondering if the I/O load from the external backup hard drive is precipitating this? For the record, it worked smoothly for many many months prior to that. I'm using 12-STABLE (r358260 currently). > I'd be happy to move to something else too, provided it was something I > can get at a reasonable cost and does the things I need (specifically, I > need I2c and GPIO for the purposes I put these to.) But... what is the > "something" I should move to? I'm in the same boat. I'm using RPi probably because the huge "mindshare" caused me to buy them. There seem to be a lot of similar "hobbyist" devices out there, but the choice is overwhelming to me (hence my asking for specific hints). Cheers, Paul.