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Date:      Mon, 13 Jul 2020 17:49:07 -0400
From:      Aryeh Friedman <>
To:        Don Wilde <>
Cc:        FreeBSD Mailing List <>
Subject:   Re: Petite Cloud, CBSD, Intellij
Message-ID:  <>
In-Reply-To: <>
References:  <> <>

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On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 12:46 PM Don Wilde <> wrote:

> On 7/13/20 5:59 AM, Brandon helsley wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Aryeh, I wanted to ask you a few questions. I remember you telling me
> about the program petite cloud and was wondering if you would show me how
> it works. I found CBSD and Intellij projects and want

I will answer this as a separate message later today.

to know more about how they work too and find anymore programs available on
> freebsd like these if you know of any. Could you remind me of how to change
> the settings in thunderbird so I'm not top posting and replying correctly
> too?
> >
> Actually, I see evidence in the ports tree that there is some support
> for hosting JetBrains' IDEs on FreeBSD, but I haven't looked hard as I'm
> not building a desktop at this time. Since they are written in Java,
> that should not be difficult.
> # find /usr/ports -name "*jetbrains*"
> # find /usr/ports -name "*intellij*"

There are a number of Java IDE's in the ports collection... everything from
the (bad) attempt to do everything and be everything to everyone of Eclipse
to the simplicity of BlueJ.  Almost none of them quiet "work".  They all
have some serious sort coming, e.g. all of them I have tried except BlueJ
can't produce a standalone executable jar to save their lives nor do many
of them give you freedom to use whatever tools you want under the hood
(i.e. version control can only be done via git and none play well with
batched build systems).   That's why I don't use a IDE I use the command
line, it is a lot more powerful/more portable in the long run then any IDE
ever will be (unless you count the semi-integrated one I have put together
by hand consisting of tcsh, java/openjdk8 [slowly playing with moving to a
higher version], www/tomcat9 [tomcat is typically the target of my code],
editors/vim, devel/cook, devel/aegis and devel/fhist [note I am the
maintainer of the last 2]... I usually don't need to but I also can bring
out the big guns for debugging like java/visualvm and java/jad).   Note
cook/aegis/fhist are unorthodox when used with Java but I can (and often
will) make strong arguments to why the "official" tools *SUCK*.

All this being said if you feel more comfortable with an IDE while learning
Java I recommend BlueJ it is designed for teaching Java but has all the
features you need to make full fledged applications of any size with (when
I was in school I even implemented a interpreter for a teaching language I
designed and wrote a visual Turing Machine simulator with it... both
non-trivial applications).   BlueJ has one "killer feature" in my mind and
that is it is the only IDE I know of that will automatically draw/update a
simplified UML class diagram of your code (very useful if you are in the
very early stages of the class level architecture of a larger app).    For
more info on BlueJ (and the book mentioned below) go to .. last
note BlueJ is one of the few that actually produces working executable
standalone jars.

If you are learning Java and even if you don't use BlueJ I recommend the
entry level (no programming experience needed) textbook written by the same
person who maintains BlueJ upstream. "Objects First with Java: A Practical
Introduction Using BlueJ (6th Edition)", David J. Barness, Michael Kolling,
Pearsons, 2016, ISBN: 978-013-447736-7 ... it is the book I used when I
learned Java even though I had been programming for 20 years at the point I
found the book a breath of fresh air in terms of how things are covered.
Even though I have not read it yet (I have read other more advanced books
in the same series) another good learning source is "Head First Java"
(O'Reilly ... don't have a full citation on hand).

Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer,

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