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Date:      Sun, 29 Jul 2001 17:11:15 -0600
From:      "Kenneth D. Merry" <ken@kdm.org>
To:        Terry Lambert <tlambert2@mindspring.com>
Cc:        Mike Smith <msmith@FreeBSD.ORG>, mjacob@feral.com, Wilko Bulte <wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl>, freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: RFC: Removing support for TurboChannel machines from -current
Message-ID:  <20010729171115.A75235@panzer.kdm.org>
In-Reply-To: <3B6472CD.CA7AEF89@mindspring.com>; from tlambert2@mindspring.com on Sun, Jul 29, 2001 at 01:32:13PM -0700
References:  <200107282113.f6SLDXJ02660@mass.dis.org> <3B6472CD.CA7AEF89@mindspring.com>

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On Sun, Jul 29, 2001 at 13:32:13 -0700, Terry Lambert wrote:
> Mike Smith wrote:
> > > Let's not chase away someone who might take you up on your
> > > offer in the future by deleting the existing code today.
> > 
> > I disagree here.  I'd much rather chase these hypothetical individuals
> > away, or at least offer them a more useful and relevant alternative.
> 
> The reductio ad absurdum of your argument is obvious:
> 
> 	"So how about we do away with the x86 code, and let
> 	 them use Linux or Windows 2000, since there's more
> 	 software available for either of them?"
> 
> > > What does diking out the code buy you, apart from less code
> > > in a checked out source tree, a bigger Attic, and a large
> > > CVSsup/CTM delta for everyone to have to swallow?
> > 
> > It takes away the "moral high ground" perceived by persons such as
> > yourself to perpetuate support for, or argue against changes which
> > prejudice, obsolete, unused and irrelevant hardware.
> 
> You mean like when Garret Wollman changed the routing code,
> and didn't update the X.25 code or the ISODE code, and so
> broke both of them?
> 
> Or you mean like the Adaptec 1540/1542/1740/1742 were orphaned
> for a long time, after the "CAM of Worms".

Watch your examples.  I think you mean the 1520/1522.  The aha and ahb
drivers were committed on September 15, 1998, along with the rest of CAM.

Luoqi committed the aic(4) driver a little over a year later.  (I'm glad
someone decided to write it.)

> I view this as a maintenance issue.
> 
> This is really a wierd conversation to be having on the -alpha
> list, considering the Alpha is all but dead itself, now that
> Compaq has rolled over for Intel -- it is the epitomy, now, of
> "obsolete, unused and irrelevant hardware".
> 
> 
> > We don't support the TC machines.  It's foolish to pretend
> > otherwise, and simply makes for distractions at various levels.
> > The code should go.
> 
> The code is not used unless it's optioned in; why dike out
> something which is harmless?  I don't see you getting a "moral
> high ground" out of the act, I just see you attacking the size
> of the potential user base for FreeBSD.

FWIW, I've got a borrowed (the owner doesn't want it back) DEC 3000/120
box.  At one point a couple of years ago, I started work on an esp driver
for CAM, but never got around to finishing it.

Anyway, I guess my take on this whole thing is I would rather leave the
TC code in the tree, just in case I or someone else come along and feel
like making it work.  (The box boots diskless just fine, it's just the SCSI
controller that isn't supported.)

I don't feel too strongly about it, though, I can always run NetBSD on the
box.

Ken
-- 
Kenneth Merry
ken@kdm.org

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