From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Aug 4 19:13:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA14546 for freebsd-stable-outgoing; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 19:13:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ms1.dgsys.com (ms1.dgsys.com [204.97.64.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA14525 for ; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 19:12:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jchill@dgsys.com) Received: from [204.97.64.155] (gueuze.dgsys.com [204.97.64.155]) by ms1.dgsys.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA03963 for ; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 22:12:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: jchill@pop.dgsys.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 22:15:33 -0400 To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG From: Chris Hill Subject: Re: Install *actually* friendly Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Before getting into specifics, I would like to clarify a couple of things. First, my post was intended as constructive criticism - just a couple of items that could be added to the docs to make life easier for the next newbie. Second, I wanted to mention how VERY PAINLESS the whole experience was (once I had the information I needed) compared to some other software installations I've had to endure. This really went much more smoothly than I expected. "Michael C. Vergallen" writes, >On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Chris Hill wrote: >> Gripes: >> >> 1. The instructions-docs-readmes pertaining to the installation need to be >> more explicit on the fact that the boot floppy's little kernel has enough >> smarts to handle an ftp installation all by itself. [snip] >... the fact is that most install floppy's >for most Unisis can install without requiring anything else besides the >boot floppy or floppys. Exactly my point. Not everyone has experience with multiple different kinds of unix installations. When it comes to documentation, I'd prefer too much over too little. In any event, what harm could it do to include this fact in the readme or the installation instructions? >however one does need to have access to a working >system to create a boot floppy on. A working *DOS* system. Quite true, and easy enough to work around. [snip] >> 4. Since FreeBSD runs on PC hardware, I would have thought the default >> configuration would [include the] floppy drive. > >No .. I would not like to see this happen for the simple reason that I see >that most poeple disable the floppy in bios when done installing the >system. On some off my systems I disable and remove the floppy after >installation to make shure no clown tampers with the data contained on >those systems or in event off the systems going down enabling the system >to reboot itself without having to worry that a floppy might be in the >drive. Good point - I hadn't thought of that, and I agree. I guess it depends on the environment in which the computer will reside. Furthermore, Mike Smith points out that [regarding the fact that FreeBSD can install itself via ftp without external support] >Writing documentation is very hard, especially if you've just spent >lots of time writing the code in question - what seems obvious to the >author is going to give newcomers problems. Been there! "Of COURSE you need to have the right driver for the device, and of COURSE it needs to be in your cn2/ir directory... Didn't you know that? What a retard." :^) (That's the sort of line I have to restrain myself from writing when preparing a manual for a customer.) >We count on feedback like >yours, preferably before releases, to help with this. That's why I tried to make this *constructive* criticism - the sort of thing that I, as a developer and doc writer, would like to have. Unfortunately I'm also a wuss, and so chose "stable" over "current." >Having said that, the FAQ in section 2.1 tries to make the point above >clear, as does the opening paragraph in section 2 of the handbook, and >section 1.5 in the installation help document (INSTALL.TXT, also on the >sysinstall menu). I'm not sure where else it could be usefully >mentioned. Perfect illustration of your first point ("what seems obvious to the author is going to give newcomers problems"). It does in fact say that in the FAQ. It's just that, given the overall tone of the FAQ (such as the mention of DOS in the same section) it was not clear to me. Of course it's *crystal* clear *now,* since at this point I've done it before. The same applies to INSTALL.TXT. >> The virtual console is >> a truly great feature, but it needs to be documented. > >This is documented under "Special Features" in the (succinct) usage >document, available from the initial sysinstall mennu. You're right - my apologies. I guess I was hoping to see it in the separate documentation files such as INSTALL.TXT, rather than the on-screen help. Which can be perused at leisure, rather than hastily scanned in the heat of the moment. Thanks to one and all for listening and responding. -- Chris Hill jchill@dgsys.com [place witty saying here] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message