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Date:      Sat, 17 Nov 2001 16:40:04 -0800 (PST)
From:      Konstantinos Konstantinidis <kkonstan@duth.gr>
To:        freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org
Subject:   Re: ports/32046: Port cleanup: x11-fonts/webfonts
Message-ID:  <200111180040.fAI0e4W48140@freefall.freebsd.org>

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The following reply was made to PR ports/32046; it has been noted by GNATS.

From: Konstantinos Konstantinidis <kkonstan@duth.gr>
To: clefevre@citeweb.net
Cc: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: ports/32046: Port cleanup: x11-fonts/webfonts
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 02:37:16 +0200

 Cyrille Lefevre wrote:
 > 
 > Konstantinos Konstantinidis wrote:
 > >
 > > I am not familiar with xfstt/XFree86 3.3.6 - I've been using XFree86 4
 > > for over a year now... care to explain what was the problem with using
 > > foundry "truetype"? "webfonts" works ok with XFree86 4 of course, but
 > 
 > I also use XFree86 4 for at least the same amount of time, but as
 > someone suggested to 3.3.6 users the use of Xfstt, I've tried it
 > w/o freetype under XFree86 4.x. see the following message for details :
 > http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=614091+0+current/freebsd-stable
 > and using webfonts as a subdir of TrueType, name them -webfonts-
 > while putting them at the TrueType top level, name them -ttf-
 > whatever the foundry name they could have before. the is a ttf FAQ.
 > this is also a ttf FAQ to only have -0- fonts :( unfortunately,
 > aliases doesn't seem to work through xfstt. don't know why ?  so,
 > -truetype- or -netscape- aliases are meaningless is this case.
 > this problem doesn't exists using `freetype' under XFree86 4.x, but
 > to be compatible w/ xfstt, they should be named -webfonts- or -ttf-
 > except if someone know how to have working aliases under xfstt...
 > 
 > > I'd like to know... especially since this would force many that had
 > > hardwired the foundry to change their configs... Perhaps a better idea
 > > would be to change the name of the port from webfonts to truetype as
 > > many suggested, and leave the foundry as it was.
 > 
 > by `leave the foundry as it was', do you intend to left them to
 > -microsoft- and -monotype- or to -truetype- ? frankly, I'm not
 > sure that somebody have hardwired the foundry name somewhere
 > except within netscape preferences. of course, it would be better
 > to add a comment about the name change in the pkg-message (my fault
 > to not have done this :). see the attached patch about that.
 
 Sorry, I wasn't clear - I meant -truetype-. I guess it is simpler to
 just change the foundry and put a note on pkg-message, so I'm fine
 with that.
 
 Anyway, I must admit I never thought about XFree86 3.3.6, which is
 a shame since it is the 'default' when installing FreeBSD, and chances
 are many people are still using it.
 
 I think the right thing to do would be to check XFREE86_VERSION, and
 if it's not 4 then depend on Xfstt and possibly setup the symlink too
 or mention it in pkg-message...
 
 When I'll merge your patches I'll be adding that too. 
 
 > > >         -netscape- aliases deleted (they are not needed and slow
 > > >         down XFree86 and netscape startup). the number of aliases
 > > >         has been lower from 5400 to 3832. -0-0- aliases added to
 > > >         allow font scaling under netscape. intermediates font sizes
 > > >         (9, 16 and 20) deleted to follow the other fonts name space.
 > >
 > > It's been a long time since I hacked that port together, and the whole
 > > point of the -netscape- aliases was that netscape didn't scale them
 > > properly, thus you could use the -netscape- aliases as a fixed font
 > > to aproximate the behaviour of Win32 netscape and make life more
 > > bearable. If you don't use netscape or don't want that behaviour,
 > 
 > w/ the -0- aliases, netscape seems to be happy w/ font scaling,
 > as well as w/ fixed point sized fonts. no need to bind them to
 > -netscape- or whatever. -truetype- or -webfonts- is sufficient.
 > 
 > > there's no point in creating those aliases in the first place... I
 > > am not sure if there's any point to have the aliases with the same
 > > foundry name, I think that they won't work as intended, or at all,
 > > in which case you might as well not build them... As I said, it's
 > 
 > w/o these aliases, netscape won't find fixed point size fonts except
 > the default (12) one. of course, it's still possible to enter a fixed
 > size in the scale box, but this information don't survive netscape
 > restarts. having them explicitely makes everybody (netscaep, you,
 > me, etc :) happy.
 
 OK, that refreshed my memory quite well :> I'm still not sure WHY I took
 the decision to have aliases with -netscape- foundry in the first place,
 but having checked w/ your patched webfonts all seems the same, so they
 really are no longer needed.
  
 > > been a long time and I'm not sure why I took some of the decisions
 > > that I took, chances are you're right, but I'd appreciate if you'd
 > > explain...
 > 
 > until two days, I don't know the webfonts port, while I've manually
 > done the same job a long time ago, but w/o the aliases. so, I've
 > tried the webfonts port and see that fixed size font don't work as
 > expected, IMHO. then, I've played w/ aliases to make them work better.
 > and I see a great difference on having 12000+ aliases (all sizes
 > and -netscape- aliases) on X and netscape startup. maybe you don't
 > see this difference because you probably have a powerfull machine.
 > but using a P200, the difference is significant. w/ 12000+ aliases,
 > netscape takes a long time to start and the X server don't do
 > anything during this time until netscape has got all aliases.
 > in one word, you cannot do anything... the conclusion was, the least
 > aliases you have, the faster everything works :P
 
 Point taken - Both my workstations are quite fast so I didn't know that
 this was even an issue.
 
 As for the fixed size fonts not working quite as expected, what can I
 say... Netscape is VERY weird. At least mozilla is working great with
 webfonts, even with none of these alias nonsense... I can't wait till
 the day I'll be able to get rid of Netscape altogether.
 
 > since aliases doesn't seem to work w/ xfstt, XFree86 3.3.6 users
 > probably have to play w/ both xfstt and the usual font path.
 > the first of render well the fonts and the second to access the
 > aliases. something such as :
 >         xset fp+ unix/:7101
 >         xset fp+ /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/webfonts
 >         xset fp rehash
 >         xlsfonts -fn -webfonts-* | grep -c helvetica
 >         -> 406
 > could someone try this under XFree86 3.3.6 w/ and w/o the second xset ?
 > thanks.
 > 
 > this patch (-p1) should be applyed to the first one. features are :
 > 
 >         Makefile
 >                 CABEXTRACT added.
 >                 FONTSDIR depends on FONTNAME which depends on PORTNAME.
 >         pkg-message
 >                 :%!fmt to reformat long lines.
 >                 netscape note added (well, humm, maybe %%FONTNAME%%
 >                 should be used there...)
 >         pkg-plist
 >                 %%FONTSDIR%% added.
 > 
 [patch sniped]
 
 --kkonstan

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