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Date:      Tue, 27 Nov 2001 07:07:18 -0600
From:      jacks@sage-american.com
To:        "Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm@toybox.placo.com>, "Stephen Hovey" <shovey@buffnet.net>
Cc:        <freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject:   RE: this spam
Message-ID:  <3.0.5.32.20011127070718.01042450@mail.sage-american.com>
In-Reply-To: <000101c17718$77d43180$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com>
References:  <3.0.5.32.20011126092308.01042450@mail.sage-american.com>

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I do run my own system and admin the mail... so, I am looking at it from
both sides. I can block any email or domain.... and have a few offensive
sites blocked. Of course. many are phoney addresses and doing it takes up
time and an unending war...

I'd be more concerned about those sending out viruses and worms...

At 11:52 PM 11.26.2001 -0800, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: jacks@sage-american.com [mailto:jacks@sage-american.com]
>>Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 7:23 AM
>>To: Stephen Hovey; Ted Mittelstaedt
>>Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG
>>Subject: RE: this spam
>>
>>
>>Stephen: You are rigt and that was my very point earlier.... it may be okay
>>to suggest that a mailserver administrator decide what is spam, until he
>>decides it is YOUR emails...
>
>Your missing the point Jack.
>
>spam is mail that is unsolicited and sent to multiple recipients, many
>hundreds
>of thousands of recipients.  A spam message that you receive is no more sent
>"to you" than my germs are when I sneeze in a room you happen to be in.
>
>However, I have a suggestion for you - if your mailserver admin is spam
>filtering, then if you don't like it then run your own mailserver and you
>can do whatever the heck you want.  We have many (including myself, BTW)
>customers that do this and we could care less if they do.  Do you think
>that it makes any difference to an ISP if the incoming SMTP is going to
>their mailserver then being sucked off that server via POP3 to a mail
>client vs the incoming SMTP going directly to that mail client owner's
>mailserver?  Well maybe to some ass-backwards ISP's like Excite@Home which
>prohibit such behavior it does (hmm - now those guys are going bankrupt,
>do you think there's a connection?  Nahhhhhh!)
>
>You guys are missing the boat here.  If you spend five minutes actually
>READING the RFC's and documentation on Internet e-mail you will realize that
>kludges like POP3 and IMAP exist only to allow intermittently-connected
>dialup hosts to deal with e-mail.  The original design of the Internet
>expected that ALL hosts participating in mail would be DIRECTLY connected
>ALL THE TIME.  Mail was to go directly from the sender's workstation to
>the recipient's workstation.
>
>ISP's have a legitimate reason to filter spam BESIDES user's demands that
>they do so - because since the ISP concentrates hundreds to thousands of
>e-mailboxes on it's mailserver (because of all the weenie Windows clients
>that couldn't run an SMTP server if they tried) a typical spam run places the
>burden on that ISP of paying for the storage for all that spam.
>
>When you pay an ISP for a mailbox, your paying that ISP to handle your
>legitimate mail for you.  The ISP prices the cost of the mailbox based on
>a statistical average of how much storage that they expect all users to use.
>If the ISP allows incoming spam to enter their mailserver it totally screws
>this average.  The ISP is then put into the position where they either have
>to pass the increased storage cost on to people like you, or reduce their
>profits.  So the choices are the ISP loses customers or it weakens itself
>financially to the point of going bankrupt.
>
>>that's way too much powe to give to a single
>>person or place... then censorship sets in without bounds to some who go to
>>extremes.... people being people...
>>
>
>Yah - I'll bet you will be eating those words when your ISP comes to you and
>jacks up your mailbox price an extra $5 a month to pay for all that
>"non censorship" your advocating.  It's pretty easy to have these
high-falutin
>ideals when your not paying for them.
>
>And if you honestly would pay the extra $5 for a mailbox then you better wake
>up
>and come to the real world because 99.99% of all customers won't.
>
>Ted Mittelstaedt                                       tedm@toybox.placo.com
>Author of:                           The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide
>Book website:                          http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com
>
>
>
>
>

Best regards,
Jack L. Stone,
Server Admin

Sage-American
http://www.sage-american.com
jacks@sage-american.com

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