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Date:      Mon, 13 Jul 2020 15:16:09 -0700
From:      Don Wilde <>
To:        Aryeh Friedman <>
Cc:        FreeBSD Mailing List <>
Subject:   Re: Petite Cloud, CBSD, Intellij
Message-ID:  <>
In-Reply-To: <>
References:  <> <> <>

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On 7/13/20 2:49 PM, Aryeh Friedman wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 12:46 PM Don Wilde < 
> <>> wrote:
>     On 7/13/20 5:59 AM, Brandon helsley wrote:
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > Hi Aryeh, I wanted to ask you a few questions. I remember you
>     telling me about the program petite cloud and was wondering if you
>     would show me how it works. I found CBSD and Intellij projects and
>     want
> I will answer this as a separate message later today.
>     to know more about how they work too and find anymore programs
>     available on freebsd like these if you know of any. Could you
>     remind me of how to change the settings in thunderbird so I'm not
>     top posting and replying correctly too?
>     >
>     Actually, I see evidence in the ports tree that there is some support
>     for hosting JetBrains' IDEs on FreeBSD, but I haven't looked hard
>     as I'm
>     not building a desktop at this time. Since they are written in Java,
>     that should not be difficult.
>     # find /usr/ports -name "*jetbrains*"
>     # find /usr/ports -name "*intellij*"
> There are a number of Java IDE's in the ports collection... everything 
> from the (bad) attempt to do everything and be everything to everyone 
> of Eclipse to the simplicity of BlueJ.  Almost none of them quiet 
> "work". They all have some serious sort coming, e.g. all of them I 
> have tried except BlueJ can't produce a standalone executable jar to 
> save their lives nor do many of them give you freedom to use whatever 
> tools you want under the hood (i.e. version control can only be done 
> via git and none play well with batched build systems).   That's why I 
> don't use a IDE I use the command line, it is a lot more powerful/more 
> portable in the long run then any IDE ever will be (unless you count 
> the semi-integrated one I have put together by hand consisting of 
> tcsh, java/openjdk8 [slowly playing with moving to a higher version], 
> www/tomcat9 [tomcat is typically the target of my code], editors/vim, 
> devel/cook, devel/aegis and devel/fhist [note I am the maintainer of 
> the last 2]... I usually don't need to but I also can bring out the 
> big guns for debugging like java/visualvm and java/jad).   Note 
> cook/aegis/fhist are unorthodox when used with Java but I can (and 
> often will) make strong arguments to why the "official" tools *SUCK*.
> All this being said if you feel more comfortable with an IDE while 
> learning Java I recommend BlueJ it is designed for teaching Java but 
> has all the features you need to make full fledged applications of any 
> size with (when I was in school I even implemented a interpreter for a 
> teaching language I designed and wrote a visual Turing Machine 
> simulator with it... both non-trivial applications).   BlueJ has one 
> "killer feature" in my mind and that is it is the only IDE I know of 
> that will automatically draw/update a simplified UML class diagram of 
> your code (very useful if you are in the very early stages of the 
> class level architecture of a larger app).    For more info on BlueJ 
> (and the book mentioned below) go to <>; .. 
> last note BlueJ is one of the few that actually produces working 
> executable standalone jars.
> If you are learning Java and even if you don't use BlueJ I recommend 
> the entry level (no programming experience needed) textbook written by 
> the same person who maintains BlueJ upstream. "Objects First with 
> Java: A Practical Introduction Using BlueJ (6th Edition)", David J. 
> Barness, Michael Kolling, Pearsons, 2016, ISBN: 978-013-447736-7 ... 
> it is the book I used when I learned Java even though I had been 
> programming for 20 years at the point I found the book a breath of 
> fresh air in terms of how things are covered. Even though I have not 
> read it yet (I have read other more advanced books in the same series) 
> another good learning source is "Head First Java" (O'Reilly ... don't 
> have a full citation on hand).
I've never used IntelliJ itself, only Eclipse for Java and Enterprise 
Architect (payware).

MPHO is that I stay as far away from Java as I can, although I do use 
tools _written_ in Java like RubyMine (and Eclipse).

I was tasked with maintaining the JVM for a large IoT project (mainly 
because nobody else would touch it; they _knew_); Java7 was used both 
for the Things and the Internet analytics servers. The JVM is written 
(as is OpenJDK) in layer upon layer of code, and what we discovered was 
that one layer or another was always being broken by all the various 
open source developers. When our CEO laid off all my backups to please 
Wall Street, I gave my notice. Java has many slick features, but it 
takes a _lot_ of Java coders to get anything big done. YMMV.

pkg install bluej... number of packages to be installed: 47. Wow. I 
think not. :)

<flame bait> Personally, I like the LLVM-based CLANG and Crystal. Most 
of the installation time comes from the various versions of LLVM being 
requested by the HLL. IMHO, the LLVM is a much more flexible and 
accessible virtual execution engine than Oracle's Java and JVM. </flame 

Don Wilde
* What is the Internet of Things but a system      *
* of systems including humans?                     *

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