Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 22:48:25 -0800 From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm@toybox.placo.com> To: "Jason Halbert" <jason@jason-n3xt.org>, "Kenneth Wayne Culver" <culverk@wam.umd.edu> Cc: <freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG>, "Forrest Aldrich" <forrie@forrie.com> Subject: RE: ADSL with Verizon Message-ID: <005701c16758$32e165e0$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> In-Reply-To: <14bc01c16752$60651120$2af9620c@jason>
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>-----Original Message----- >From: Jason Halbert [mailto:jason@jason-n3xt.org] >Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 10:07 PM >To: Ted Mittelstaedt; Kenneth Wayne Culver >Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG; Forrest Aldrich >Subject: Re: ADSL with Verizon > > >I have never liked verizon. I liked GTE. When they fused into this group >called Verizon (what kind of name is that?) it all went to hell. > >After going in circles with them for 30 days trying to just get an order >placed I told Verizon to take a hike. I rang up AT&T IP Services and they >had a T1 out here in exactly 12 days. > Unfortunately Verizon has a lock on these short hopper fractional T1's that deliver Frame Relay service. We provision a lot of customers with these who can't get DSL or anything else, and your looking at circuit costs like $115 a month for a 128k FracT1 into the Verizon frame cloud. We compete directly with people like AT&T IP Services to offer the same thing and trust me, for end users like you, your better off calling someone like AT&T or us to get your circuits. But, trust me there was a project manager ripping his hair out at AT&T screaming bloody murder at Verizon just like I have to do to get the circuits delivered in a timely manner, because Verizon owns the wire that your AT&T T1 comes in on, and AT&T has to get access from Verizon same as we do. The only difference between when you called Verizon and when AT&T did, is that AT&T delivers dozens of these circuits a month on Verizon lines and knows who to blow at Verizon to get anything done. I have my Verizon contacts too but unfortunately it seems that as soon as I establish a relationship with anyone at Verizon that can get anything done, 2 weeks later the person is reassigned to Antarctica. I think that Verizon must watch their employees carefully and as soon as they identify any of their employees actually helping customers, they fire them. >I have since dropped Verizon for POTS and use AT&T Digital Phone Service. > >My company has also dropped Verizon for ATM/VPN services and moved to AT&T >IP Services. > Probably a very wise thing as I hear through the grapevine that those national VPN services that the ILEC's rolled out are not profitable and are being dumped right and left. I think probably only the national carriers like AT&T, Sprint, etc. are going to be the only ones with such offerings left in a short time. I'd never trust an ILEC to provision any interstate services today anyway. Look at all those poor folks that got dumped onto Montana Power when Qwest decided to eat US Pest. >It really is nice being able to call someone directly and talk to them when >you have a problem. :) > Yup, ILEC Telco rule #1, never answer the phone with a real person that has a clue. Ted Mittelstaedt tedm@toybox.placo.com Author of: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide Book website: http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com >---- >Jason > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm@toybox.placo.com> >To: "Jason Halbert" <jason@jason-n3xt.org>; "Kenneth Wayne Culver" ><culverk@wam.umd.edu> >Cc: <freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG>; "Forrest Aldrich" <forrie@forrie.com> >Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 23:50 >Subject: RE: ADSL with Verizon > > >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG >> >[mailto:owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Jason Halbert >> >Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 8:09 AM >> >To: Ted Mittelstaedt; Kenneth Wayne Culver >> >Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG; Forrest Aldrich >> >Subject: Re: ADSL with Verizon >> > >> > >> >Actually... their are 3 separate companies. >> > >> >You have the actual phone company Verizon. They own the ILEC. The >company >> >that provides the DSL service and T lines and above line is Verizon >> >Advanced Data Services. They are separate companies due to FCC >> >regulations. >> >> This is a bit of a misdirect. Verizon split the ILEC and ADS to get >around >> some >> FCC regulations so they could screw the consumer in some other fashion >> (getting into some other market or some such that they had no need to be >in) >> The FCC didn't force them to do it. >> >> The end result of course is simply the creation of entities that can >blame >> each other for problems instead of accepting responsibility and fixing >them, >> as well as the ability to create a labyrinthentine voice menu system that >> dumps you into the janitors closet phone after you've selected 15 menu >options >> in a row. (or dumps you into a giant hive of voicemailboxes that nobody >> ever listens to but you can spend all day leaving messages in) Oh and I >> almost forgot also lets the installers label your new T1's with circuit >ID's >> that have no relevance to anything and nobody at Verizon knows anything >about >> when you call in because they went down. >> >> It's kind of a tricky way of telling the consumer "screw you we are a >monopoly >> and you will get your circuit whenever the hell we feel like giving it to >you >> so go away and suck rocks" >> >> > Then you have VerizonOnline the ISP. >> >> Which when the FCC talks to them they sing the "We are a separate company >you >> can't regulate us" song, but when the customer talks to them they sing >the >> "We are all one big company so don't try getting an outside ISP for your >DSL >> or we will screw you" song. >> >> Laugh, but there's a reason that Verizon used Darth Vader's voice for >their >> commercials!!! >> >> Ted Mittelstaedt >tedm@toybox.placo.com >> Author of: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's >Guide >> Book website: >http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com >> >> > >> >---- >> >Jason >> > >> > >> >----- Original Message ----- >> >From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm@toybox.placo.com> >> >To: "Kenneth Wayne Culver" <culverk@wam.umd.edu> >> >Cc: "Jason Halbert" <jason@jason-n3xt.org>; >> ><freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG>; "Forrest Aldrich" <forrie@forrie.com> >> >Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 03:40 >> >Subject: RE: ADSL with Verizon >> > >> > >> >> >-----Original Message----- >> >> >From: Kenneth Wayne Culver [mailto:culverk@wam.umd.edu] >> >> >Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 6:06 AM >> >> >To: Ted Mittelstaedt >> >> >Cc: Jason Halbert; freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG; Forrest Aldrich >> >> >Subject: RE: ADSL with Verizon >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> yes - but that difference is only of consequence to the end user >(you) >> >> >> and the ISP. (the thing on the other end of the DSL line that your >> >> >> connected to) It's just ATM packets to the Telco. Don't confuse >the >> >> >> ISP (the thing on the other end of the DSL circuit to you) with the >> >> >> circuit provider. (the Telco) >> >> > >> >> >If he's with verizon on the east coast of the US, then the ISP and >the >> >> >circuit provider are the same company. (BTW, if you look at >dslreports, >> >> >most of the reviews of verizon say it's not that great) >> >> > >> >> >> >> I'm not so sure about that - Verizon has recently begun fracturing >itself >> >> internally into multiple companies, all operating under the Verizon >name. >> >> I am getting extremely pissed off at them now - you cannot even call >in >> >> to Verizon's test and turn up department test on a god damn T1 without >> >> being told "we can't tell you anything about that because the ILEC >hasn't >> >> released it back to us" when the ILEC is Verizon!!! >> >> >> >> I am positive though that verizon.net (the Verizon ISP) and >Verizon.com >> >> (the people that own the phone lines and provide the DSL signalling on >> >> it) are indeed different companies that are what you call "completely >> >seperate >> >> and independent companies that just happen to share the same name" >that >> >> statement was right out of a Verizon reps mouth. It's enough to drive >> >> you insane. >> >> >> >> >> >> Ted Mittelstaedt >> >tedm@toybox.placo.com >> >> Author of: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's >> >Guide >> >> Book website: >> >http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >Ken >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >> >with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message >> > >> >> > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
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