Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2014 10:24:09 -0600 From: Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> To: Jordan Hubbard <jkh@ixsystems.com> Cc: svn-src-head@freebsd.org, Baptiste Daroussin <bapt@FreeBSD.org>, src-committers@freebsd.org, David Chisnall <theraven@FreeBSD.org>, svn-src-all@freebsd.org Subject: Re: svn commit: r264042 - in head: include lib/libc/gen lib/libc/include lib/libc/stdlib Message-ID: <F837BB3E-BDCF-44D1-9EDA-805996094DB3@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <B06E1588-8828-485F-A407-3F19231F8EA5@ixsystems.com> References: <201404021607.s32G7mhw051355@svn.freebsd.org> <20140404115256.GA85137@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> <F2A33EA8-14F2-4D62-9021-9023A1751E48@FreeBSD.org> <8D6AF193-A5A3-4A28-A230-97A543395ACA@ixsystems.com> <2E0EC8CB-B3EE-4DB8-A33D-58FD2107F14D@FreeBSD.org> <6A02504F-5543-4F91-92F6-7B4FB9A34DC4@ixsystems.com> <152D73EE-DF9E-4757-B547-F1F22B12C824@FreeBSD.org> <B06E1588-8828-485F-A407-3F19231F8EA5@ixsystems.com>
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On Apr 4, 2014, at 7:44 AM, Jordan Hubbard <jkh@ixsystems.com> wrote: >> For embedded uses, we'd also like to build FreeBSD with = vendor's-ugly-hacked-up-gcc-of-the-week. This is less of an issue now = for ARM, but MIPS vendors still hack up gcc in such a way that there's = no way that they can get their changes upstreamed and then ship the = result with their chips. >=20 > I see. That=92s pretty ugly indeed - is there a list of FreeBSD MIPS = folks doing this somewhere? I ask out of curiosity to know if there=92s = any collective attempt to chain them all together and insist that they = improve clang/MIPS to the point where they can stop doing ugly-ass gcc = ports. :) Good luck with that. There are some vendors that have good engagement = with FreeBSD and the community. There are others where the engagement is = sporadic at best. FreeBSD is a second tier item, and gcc works well = enough for Linux, so what=92s your problem? Also, it is more culturally = acceptable in Linux land to get your compiler from a vendor supplied = SDK. There=92s some motion to bring that support back to the original = (though the horrible term =93upstreaming=94), but that lags = significantly, and often results in a compiler that=92s not quite as = optimal as the vendor hacked ones, so those tend to live on and on. ARM has been good about making sure there=92s good, clean support for = their designs in gcc and clang. MIPS has been adrift for a while, so = hasn=92t been a driving force in that area (although to their credit, = some funding has happened). There are more MIPS variations out there = that have been evolving for a long time than with ARM, since most ARM = SoC vendors get the core from ARM and do little to nothing with the base = core, instead innovating on the peripherals. The long and the short of this means that we=92ll need external = toolchain support for FreeBSD, and not only external toolchain support, = but better compiler support in the base than we have. Right now we have = clang and gcc. At a minimum, we=92ll need to grow a version notion (as = switches differ), and may need different levels of external toolchain = support: just build the system with a pre-built (by magic!) toolchain = with sysroot, same without sysroot and the ability to bootstrap the = external toolchain... Warner
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