Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 20:15:00 +0100 From: "Jeff Rollin" <jeff.rollin@gmail.com> To: "FreeBSD Users Questions" <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: solaris Message-ID: <8a0028260609061214s2379914naf1af41b9d9b39ff@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <20060906181707.77131.qmail@web34403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <8a0028260609060959jbaacd15rb1ac280563d1fbbe@mail.gmail.com> <20060906181707.77131.qmail@web34403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
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On 06/09/06, White Hat <pigskin_referee@yahoo.com> wrote: > > --- Jeff Rollin <jeff.rollin@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On 06/09/06, White Hat <pigskin_referee@yahoo.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > --- Freminlins <freminlins@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On 06/09/06, White Hat > > <pigskin_referee@yahoo.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I have > > > > > tried Open Office. No matter what anyone says, > > it > > > > is > > > > > just not as full featured as Word 2003. It is > > not > > > > even > > > > > close. > > > > > > > > > > > > True, but also compare the cost. Not even > > close... > > > > > > Immaterial. the singularly most important feature > > is > > > suitability to task. If it is free and it does not > > > work, what good is it? > > > > > > In what way does it "not work"? It's enough for many > > people, so why should > > they pay more? > > I never said that anyone should pay more. I simply > said that it was not suitable for the tasks that both > I, and primarily my wife, use it for. No, you said "it does not work." It's up there in black and white. Again, the price > of an object is secondary to its usefulness. At the > very least it has to be compared against it. > > > > He/she does > > > > > not want to read tons of manuals and spend > > hours > > > > in a > > > > > frustrating attempt to get it to run. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is where you are completely wrong. I work > > for > > > > an ISP. I'm not > > > > responsible for tech support but I keep my "ear > > to > > > > the ground". A VERY large > > > > number of callers have problems configuring > > Outlook > > > > Express, for example. No > > > > matter what the polls say, the experience is > > often > > > > very different. They may > > > > not read the manuals (because they are no longer > > > > supplied), they just ring a > > > > call centre instead. > > > > > > Yes, the lack of documentation is a shame. Usually > > it > > > can be obtained for an additonal cost which I > > suppose > > > is better than nothing. The same lack of > > documentation > > > plagues every facet of software today. Of course, > > it > > > has been a boon for the after market book manual > > > publishers. BTW, you have failed to document so > > called > > > help line assistants who are nothing more than > > company > > > mouth pieces who have at most a superficial > > knowledge > > > of the product that they are suppose to be > > assistant a > > > customer with. I had the experience of talking > > with a > > > customer support moron who tried to sell me a new > > > router while I attempted to explain the router was > > > fine, but the installation CD was defective. I > > > eventually just sent it back for a replacement. > > > Usually these individuals are barely equipped to > > > handle the job they are given. > > > > > > However, you have made my point. If a user cannot > > > decipher how to configure a simple thing like > > Outlook > > > Express, and there are programs available that > > will do > > > it for them, then how are they suppose to be > > capable > > > of handling a CLI OS like FreeBSD? It boggles the > > mind > > > -- at least mine. Worse, the configuration of OE > > is > > > handled by a wizard. It is truly sad when a user > > > cannot configure something when it is simplified > > down > > > to that level. > > > > > > So on the one hand you think that for the sake of > > the morons FreeBSD should > > made into something other than "a CLI OS" (which if > > you put KDE or GNOME on > > it it already is, btw), and on the other hand you > > despise the morons who > > can't even use a wizard? > > I never inferred that FBSD should evolve into > anything. It performs quite nicely as a CLI. It also performs quite nicely as a GUI, in the opinion of many. Printing > is not all that great, and the use of many devices > such as web cams can prove to be a chore to install, > but that has more to due with the creators of those > devices and lack thereof of proper drivers, etc. Even > devices that do work are not always fully supported. > Again, most likely the device creators are not > supporting the device under FreeBSD, or any other OS > except win32. Again, it is all about monetary return. > I cannot blame them, I like to eat too. > > Furthermore, I never said I despise anyone, except > perhaps pseudo technical help employees. However, even > they have to eat. I stated that it was a sad day when > someone could not ever configure OE, even when > assisted with a wizard. I think it is rather obvious > that these individuals would not be the target market > for FBSD. > > > > The average user > > > > > does not care about configuring firewall, AV > > or > > > > > Spyware, etc. Just drop in a copy of ZA with > > > > perhaps > > > > > Sunbelt's Counter Spy and they are on their > > way. > > > > > > > > > > > > That's one statement contradicting the other. > > > > > > How? Drop in two CDs or download the programs, run > > > them and case closed. Neither one requires any > > > significant configuration. The defaults work just > > fine > > > for most users. You could eliminate the Counter > > Spy > > > since ZA has its own proprietary SpyWare program, > > but > > > I just happen to prefer Counter Spy. > > > > > > A decent router does not "require any significant > > configuration" either, > > despite the fact that it should include a firewall. > > And if you use a > > router/firewall, you shouldn't need to configure a > > firewall on your > > desktop/server either. > > The key word here is 'significant'. That varies by > user to user. I believe that the use of an internal > firewall might very well be dictated by a users LAN > configuration. I only have four units networked > together, with only one avenue to the Internet, so > perhaps I don't need an extensive internal firewall. I would suggest that anyone with more than one computer definitely have a firewall-enabled router. In fact, that would be my preference in all cases because then you don't run into needless "only compatible with Windows and MacOS" issues. However, I am sure that many users do. In any case, a > router is not an AV/SpyWare detection and elimination > program. FreeBSD isn't known as a haven for viruses and spyware. > BTW, if MS actually does market it 'One Care' > > program > > > suite, that might even obsolete that entire > > process. I > > > don't think they will offer it with the OS though. > > Too > > > much of a chance the government will protest. > > > Personally I believe a company should be allowed > > to > > > market its product anyway it wants without > > government > > > intervention; however, that is entirely another > > story. > > > > > > > > > That's a good idea. And I should be able to procure > > products and settle > > scores anyway I want without government > > intervention, too. </sarcasm> > > Way out of line. Not out of line. Thee are many, many examples of companies already getting away with breaking the few rules that are there: why should those rules be relaxed so that they get away with even MORE at the expense of the buyer? No where did I even suggest the idea > of retribution. Nor did I, as I noted, that was sarcasm. I assume that is what you are > referring to by "settle scores". I believe that within > a few carefully crafted guidelines perhaps, a > developer should be free to create and offer for sale, > distribution, give it away free for all I car > (FreeBSD) any item that they so desire. Let the market > decide whether or not the item if of any value. > Furthermore, I never mentioned 'procure' in my > statement. That is your own concoction. I am dead set > fascism, socialism or any other type of 'ism' you want > to infer when it comes to the freedom of creating and > marketing. Obviously, with a few carefully crafted > regulation; i.e., say of prescription drugs, > explosives -- things like that. I don't want to get > involved with basic economy 101 here however. > > -- Jeff Rollin -- Proud Linux user since 1998
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