Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 15:59:04 +0100 From: Andre Oppermann <andre@freebsd.org> To: Brad Knowles <brad.knowles@skynet.be> Cc: freebsd-net@freebsd.org Subject: Re: My planned work on networking stack Message-ID: <4044A138.F444D224@freebsd.org> References: <4043B6BA.B847F081@freebsd.org> <200403011507.52238.wes@softweyr.com> <20040302031625.GA4061@scylla.towardex.com> <20040302042957.GH3841@saboteur.dek.spc.org> <p0600200ebc6a27773c31@[10.0.1.3]>
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Brad Knowles wrote: > > At 11:26 AM +0300 2004/03/02, Gleb Smirnoff wrote: > > > Is there any plans about integration of BGP routing daemon (Zebra or > > Quagga) into FreeBSD? With BGP routing daemon onboard, FreeBSD will be > > a strong alternative against expensive commercial routers. I have > > successfull experience of running FreeBSD STABLE with 2 full BGP views > > for half a year. Modern i386 PC can route/filter/shape much more traffic > > than expensive Cisco 36xx. I haven't yet compared with 7000 series... > > Talk to people who have real-world experience in running > zebra/quagga in ISP environments with multiple upstreams and taking > full views. The guy who is designing bgpd for OpenBSD gave a talk on > the subject at FOSDEM, and it was very enlightening to hear about the > problems with zebra (which went commercial and the open source > version basically hasn't been touched in years) and quagga (which is > a community of zebra users trying desperately to fix the worst of the > bugs), and how he has used this information during his design of a > replacement, and the methodology he used to make sure that the > resulting system is robust and capable of being used in real-world > production environments. Zebra or Quagga are not broken, just not very optimal in their implementation. I'm running Zebra with several full-feeds and about 150 peerings for four years now on FreeBSD routers with uptimes of 300-400 days. It is true that Zebra's bgpd is un- responsive for a couple of seconds when is has to walk the routing table when large feeds flap but it doesn't crash. Zebra is definatly *not* a piece of s*** as you make it sound here. > His only issue with using exclusively PC equipment for handling > routing is all those strange WAN protocols and cards for which > hardware cards are rarely available beyond vendors like cisco or > Juniper. That's why he's going pure Ethernet protocols/hardware > throughout all his networks, including his upstream feeds, so that he > can dump all that expensive ancient legacy routing hardware. You need GigE, T1/E1, E3/T3 and STM-1 these days. Everything else is dead. > If anything, I'd be inclined to look towards his work for OpenBSD > and see if that could be imported into FreeBSD (and maybe improved, > with contributions given back to him), rather than mess around with > crap like zebra or quagga. Ok, again Zebra/Quagga is not "crap". The same with DJBware which is no "crap" either. If you don't like it just say so but refrain from dirt-talking it. It doesn't make your point any stronger. The bgpd from OpenBSD will surely make it's way into FreeBSD [*]. The main developer besides Henning sits about 5 meters away from me in my office. If you look at it then you'll find out that I'm not really innocent that bgpd ;-) http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/usr.sbin/bgpd/rde.h?rev=1.33&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup [*] In FreeBSD it will be a port. I don't know why a bgpd should be in the base system. > Oh, and it would be nice if someone somewhere started thinking > about a mesh routing implementation for *BSD, either AODV or > something else. It would be nice if you could calm down, stop your mis-informed accusations and rants and actually try to be helpful and progressive to the projects which try to do it better. Thank you very much. -- Andre
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