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Date:      Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:29:47 +0100
From:      "William Palfreman" <william@palfreman.com>
To:        "eBoundHost: Artur" <artur@eboundhost.com>,  "Frank Shute" <frank@esperance-linux.co.uk>,  "FreeBSD chat" <freebsd-chat@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: who wrote this
Message-ID:  <731a66520711270629n605a8ba3pa4964e5dd6646aaa@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <20071126200423.GA86038@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk>
References:  <000401c82fb0$191b53b0$f300a8c0@outkast> <000301c82fbe$6ff618b0$6701a8c0@mobility> <20071126013321.GA82569@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <001d01c82fd1$d0722130$6701a8c0@mobility> <20071126130142.GA85191@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <001701c83046$1c3af910$6d00a8c0@mobility> <20071126200423.GA86038@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk>

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BTW, I think the new FreeBSD logo is horrible.  Stick to the beastie.

Ahh top post!  Now I will rot on hell with Hitler, anyone who is
offended by seeing a Hitler quote in the Fortune program (an
electronic fortune cookie for crying out loud)
and whichever numpty thought that stupid new logo was ok and that it
mattered if a few very clearly non-FreeBSD uses thought it was
satinic.

Bill.

(BTW, top posting can be useful if you want to refer to a text as a
general overview, not a line by line flame war)

On 26/11/2007, Frank Shute <frank@esperance-linux.co.uk> wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 26, 2007 at 10:05:05AM -0600, eBoundHost: Artur wrote:
> >
> >
> <snip>
> >
> > >
> > >You also failed to address most of my points.
> >
> > Frank,  No offense, but who has time to go through all points of every post
> > and respond.  There was much said here but i want to keep this post on
> > topic.
>
> Artur, you shouldn't have kicked a hornet's nest if you aren't
> prepared to respond ;)
>
> <snip>
> >
> > >And you haven't got the right to excise Hitler's name from FreeBSD
> > >material. Don't you see the irony in that? When he banned certain
> > >artists on the grounds of "decency" just like you're proposing to do.
> > >
> >
> > Two points
> >
> > 1) first of all, i don't think that freebsd operating system is an
> > appropriate forum to express political views.  so whether we are for or
> > against censorship or democracy or fascism or communism, it really does not
> > matter.
>
> chat@ is an appropriate forum to discuss politics as it relates to
> FreeBSD and you bought it up in the first place! It's you who wants to
> indulge in censorship.
>
> As for your assertion it doesn't matter, it *does* matter. Most people
> within this community are against censorship of any form, it goes with
> the territory of open source software.
>
> > what matters is how good our coding is, and how appropriate the
> > wording on our website.  because like it or not, we have to present a
> > decent website that does not offend our users and does not make us look bad
> > in front of non-users.
>
> We went through this when the new logo was created. One of the reasons
> it was created was a result of some stupid people thinking the OS was
> to do with satanism (because of the daemon logo). My opinion, is that
> if people are that stupid then they don't deserve to use FreeBSD.
>
> >
> > 2) That's the thing, banning hitlers name is not at all what i'm trying to
> > do.  I think we should keep his quotes in the database of quotes, if that's
> > what the community thinks is appropriate.  What I'm suggesting is that we
> > remove his name from the website:
> > (http://www.freebsd.org/internal/fortunes.html) because it seems to
> > innapropriately focus the attention away from the program (Fortune) and
> > unecessarily makes the FreeBSD community seem like a bunch of insensitive
> > jerks because we seemingly condone hitlers sayings.
>
> Where does it say we condone Hitler's sayings? It doesn't and maybe
> some of his sayings are worth condoning.
>
> All it says is they don't belong in the offensive fortunes just
> because they happen to be said by Hitler. It's a good example made in
> context.
>
> > People who come accross this wording will not stop to think about
> > all the deep philosophical reasons why the text needs to be there to
> > protect freedoms.  All they will see is that we seemingly support
> > Hitler.  Why don't we have other names controversial during our
> > times like Mussolini, Stalin, or even Gorge Bush?
>
> If people are so shallow that they think FreeBSD supports Hitler and
> all his works from that page, then they don't deserve to use FreeBSD &
> good riddance to them.
>
> As to why we shouldn't have another name? Well, people would obviously
> think we support all the satanic works of Mussolini, George Bush etc.
> We'd be back to square one again.
>
> >
> > >Just because he was "evil" doesn't mean he and the rest of his
> > >henchmen didn't have something interesting to say about the human
> > >condition. If you don't believe me, read "Brave New World: Revisited"
> > >by A.Huxley.
> >
> > This has nothing to do with anything that I'm saying.  Listen, my
> > grandmother also has some interesting things to say but you don't put her
> > name on the front page of the Fortune program because it's not appropriate.
> > Same thing here.  Just not an appropriate forum.
>
> I just don't agree with you. His name is used entirely appropriately
> on that page.
>
> <snip>
>
> PS. Please note that I use <snip> to indicate excised content & I
> didn't quote you out of order or context.
>
> Regards,
>
> --
>
>  Frank
>
>
>  Contact info: http://www.esperance-linux.co.uk/misc/contact.html
>
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