From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 27 14:54:44 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADB8E16A420 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:54:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from william@palfreman.com) Received: from rv-out-0910.google.com (rv-out-0910.google.com [209.85.198.185]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60D0813C457 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:54:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from william@palfreman.com) Received: by rv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id l15so924233rvb for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:54:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.82.38 with SMTP id f38mr1921940rvb.1196173787159; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:29:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.35.18.8 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:29:46 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <731a66520711270629n605a8ba3pa4964e5dd6646aaa@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:29:47 +0100 From: "William Palfreman" To: "eBoundHost: Artur" , "Frank Shute" , "FreeBSD chat" In-Reply-To: <20071126200423.GA86038@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <000401c82fb0$191b53b0$f300a8c0@outkast> <000301c82fbe$6ff618b0$6701a8c0@mobility> <20071126013321.GA82569@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <001d01c82fd1$d0722130$6701a8c0@mobility> <20071126130142.GA85191@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <001701c83046$1c3af910$6d00a8c0@mobility> <20071126200423.GA86038@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> Cc: Subject: Re: who wrote this X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:54:44 -0000 BTW, I think the new FreeBSD logo is horrible. Stick to the beastie. Ahh top post! Now I will rot on hell with Hitler, anyone who is offended by seeing a Hitler quote in the Fortune program (an electronic fortune cookie for crying out loud) and whichever numpty thought that stupid new logo was ok and that it mattered if a few very clearly non-FreeBSD uses thought it was satinic. Bill. (BTW, top posting can be useful if you want to refer to a text as a general overview, not a line by line flame war) On 26/11/2007, Frank Shute wrote: > On Mon, Nov 26, 2007 at 10:05:05AM -0600, eBoundHost: Artur wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > >You also failed to address most of my points. > > > > Frank, No offense, but who has time to go through all points of every post > > and respond. There was much said here but i want to keep this post on > > topic. > > Artur, you shouldn't have kicked a hornet's nest if you aren't > prepared to respond ;) > > > > > > >And you haven't got the right to excise Hitler's name from FreeBSD > > >material. Don't you see the irony in that? When he banned certain > > >artists on the grounds of "decency" just like you're proposing to do. > > > > > > > Two points > > > > 1) first of all, i don't think that freebsd operating system is an > > appropriate forum to express political views. so whether we are for or > > against censorship or democracy or fascism or communism, it really does not > > matter. > > chat@ is an appropriate forum to discuss politics as it relates to > FreeBSD and you bought it up in the first place! It's you who wants to > indulge in censorship. > > As for your assertion it doesn't matter, it *does* matter. Most people > within this community are against censorship of any form, it goes with > the territory of open source software. > > > what matters is how good our coding is, and how appropriate the > > wording on our website. because like it or not, we have to present a > > decent website that does not offend our users and does not make us look bad > > in front of non-users. > > We went through this when the new logo was created. One of the reasons > it was created was a result of some stupid people thinking the OS was > to do with satanism (because of the daemon logo). My opinion, is that > if people are that stupid then they don't deserve to use FreeBSD. > > > > > 2) That's the thing, banning hitlers name is not at all what i'm trying to > > do. I think we should keep his quotes in the database of quotes, if that's > > what the community thinks is appropriate. What I'm suggesting is that we > > remove his name from the website: > > (http://www.freebsd.org/internal/fortunes.html) because it seems to > > innapropriately focus the attention away from the program (Fortune) and > > unecessarily makes the FreeBSD community seem like a bunch of insensitive > > jerks because we seemingly condone hitlers sayings. > > Where does it say we condone Hitler's sayings? It doesn't and maybe > some of his sayings are worth condoning. > > All it says is they don't belong in the offensive fortunes just > because they happen to be said by Hitler. It's a good example made in > context. > > > People who come accross this wording will not stop to think about > > all the deep philosophical reasons why the text needs to be there to > > protect freedoms. All they will see is that we seemingly support > > Hitler. Why don't we have other names controversial during our > > times like Mussolini, Stalin, or even Gorge Bush? > > If people are so shallow that they think FreeBSD supports Hitler and > all his works from that page, then they don't deserve to use FreeBSD & > good riddance to them. > > As to why we shouldn't have another name? Well, people would obviously > think we support all the satanic works of Mussolini, George Bush etc. > We'd be back to square one again. > > > > > >Just because he was "evil" doesn't mean he and the rest of his > > >henchmen didn't have something interesting to say about the human > > >condition. If you don't believe me, read "Brave New World: Revisited" > > >by A.Huxley. > > > > This has nothing to do with anything that I'm saying. Listen, my > > grandmother also has some interesting things to say but you don't put her > > name on the front page of the Fortune program because it's not appropriate. > > Same thing here. Just not an appropriate forum. > > I just don't agree with you. His name is used entirely appropriately > on that page. > > > > PS. Please note that I use to indicate excised content & I > didn't quote you out of order or context. > > Regards, > > -- > > Frank > > > Contact info: http://www.esperance-linux.co.uk/misc/contact.html > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >