From owner-svn-src-all@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 30 17:49:25 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-all@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63DC51065670; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 17:49:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sam@freebsd.org) Received: from ebb.errno.com (ebb.errno.com [69.12.149.25]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 147058FC13; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 17:49:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sam@freebsd.org) Received: from trouble.errno.com (trouble.errno.com [10.0.0.248]) (authenticated bits=0) by ebb.errno.com (8.13.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id n0UHnOlo047798 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 30 Jan 2009 09:49:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sam@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <49833DA4.3080407@freebsd.org> Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 09:49:24 -0800 From: Sam Leffler Organization: FreeBSD Project User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.18 (X11/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: obrien@freebsd.org References: <200901130653.n0D6rrNX092719@svn.freebsd.org> <20090130015518.GA20404@hades.panopticon> <20090130.085130.-4349483.imp@bsdimp.com> <20090130173956.GA9119@dragon.NUXI.org> In-Reply-To: <20090130173956.GA9119@dragon.NUXI.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-sonic.net-Metrics: ebb.errno.com; whitelist Cc: svn-src-head@freebsd.org, svn-src-all@freebsd.org, src-committers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: svn commit: r187132 - head/usr.bin/make X-BeenThere: svn-src-all@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "SVN commit messages for the entire src tree \(except for " user" and " projects" \)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 17:49:25 -0000 David O'Brien wrote: > On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 08:51:30AM -0700, M. Warner Losh wrote: > >> In message: <20090130015518.GA20404@hades.panopticon> >> Dmitry Marakasov writes: >> : * David E. O'Brien (obrien@FreeBSD.org) wrote: >> : I think this should be backed out. Those verbose messages: >> : - Are completely unexpected, this violates POLA. >> : - Do break recognizeable make output people are used to >> : - Really uglify make output for some custom makefiles (for example, >> : generated by cmake: >> > .. > >> : There's golden unix way rule: silence is golden. So please back this >> : out, as this will really annoy many people. >> >> This makes at least two requests... I hate them too. really really >> really hate them. -Q is default in all my trees. >> >> The real problem is that it exposes way too many internal target names >> that are totally baffling, even to me who has a lot of build >> experience. Also, it isn't clear how to use them. >> >> O'Brien says they were disabled in 1994 for no good reason without >> discussion, so he's turning them back on, without discussion. The >> project is a very different place than it was then, and doing this >> sort of thing is anti-social. >> > > s/1994/14-Nov-1998/ > > 100,000 of things change within FreeBSD without discission that > displeases some set of folks. That's nothing new, but I'm restoring > compatibility and functionailty, not removing it. > > I found src/Makefile.inc1 r134903 / rev 1.444 very noisy, but lived with > it. I don't care that -s now implies -Q, except that it still leaves so > much "noise" like r134903 / rev 1.444 and other output. > [Why the log message is about 'Unanimous Consent' and not verbosity?] > > I wonder what % build speed improvement quieting that behind 'make -s' > would give? > > The point of his message is this is a community-based project and as such consensus is important. I have seen zero support for your change, only complaints. Change is change; you can't hide behind a claim you're restoring 10-year old behaviour. Sam