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Date:      Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:07:23 -0800
From:      Kris Kennaway <kris@obsecurity.org>
To:        Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@phk.freebsd.dk>
Cc:        freebsd-arch@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: CFD: XMLification of NOTES
Message-ID:  <20040331060723.GA44504@xor.obsecurity.org>
In-Reply-To: <7912.1080712084@critter.freebsd.dk>
References:  <20040331054419.GA44221@xor.obsecurity.org> <7912.1080712084@critter.freebsd.dk>

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On Wed, Mar 31, 2004 at 07:48:04AM +0200, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
> In message <20040331054419.GA44221@xor.obsecurity.org>, Kris Kennaway wri=
tes:
>=20
>=20
> >Don't change the topic.  XML is not required for any of that, and
> >someone could just as easily write those tools without it.  Similarly,
> >it's just as wrong to assume that changing to XML will magically cause
> >all these tools to appear.
>=20
> It is true that XML is not required, but XML is the format chosen
> by the developer who has actually spent time on this, so I don't
> think you have a particularly strong voice to critize his choice
> unless you plan to spend your own time working on this issue.
>=20
> Why the f**k are we so quick to shoot our own developers in the
> back in this project ?

Alexey's email did not mention the existence of a prototype
implementation, only possibilities for future work.  Go back to my
previous response to him, where I pointed out that extraordinary
claims require extraordinary proof, and if he wants people to accept
the initial step he needs to also provide a sufficiently good proof of
concept to justify the pain of transition and maintenance.

For example, I'd love a kernel dependency checker -- you may not be
aware that I spend a lot of time answering support emails from people
who didn't read the comments in NOTES or GENERIC about required
dependencies of things like umass (that one comes up on questions@ at
least once a week).

It's the "if you build it, they will come" that I don't like: as you
well know, FreeBSD does not have a good history with people making
partial architectural changes under the assumption that someone else
will finish the job later.  If Alexey carries this to completion and
comes up with a useful, usable set of tools, I think that's great!

Kris
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