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Date:      Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:31:02 -0500 (CDT)
From:      "M. L. Dodson" <bdodson@beowulf.utmb.edu>
To:        nathan@senate.org
Cc:        freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: SCSI Hardware (was: QIC-80 Floppy Tapes)
Message-ID:  <199706301631.LAA04840@beowulf.utmb.edu>

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Been there.

> Nonetheless, I paid only $100 for this drive about two years ago and
> don't have the money to purchase a SCSI tape, at least not for this
> computer which doesn't even have a SCSI adapter. I thought that there'd
> be others like me and this would generate some interest; obviously I
> was wrong. 

There is always hope.  There was a flurry of interest a couple of months
ago about a new access program, (driver?), but I haven't heard of it
supplanting the ft program, so I guess it is still experimental or a 
well kept secret.  That is why I suggested that you start out with the
IOMEGA, which I think is just a stripped down Adaptec 1520, at least
NT sees it as such.  No external connector, and it is PIO, so you don't
get any scsi advantage except reliability.  I think it is ~$40 if you
buy it without the scsi zip (which, by the way, is really pretty competitive
with a lowend tape drive.  And you can use it just like a 95MB tape
drive.  If the cartridge prices are really cheap in your locality, it
might pay to consider it instead of a tape drive.)

>As I plan to make my next computer all SCSI, can I change
> the subject and ask this: If I were to get computer A instead of computer
> B below, what (approximately) would be the price difference?
> 
>    A                            B
> SCSI 3.1GB HD              EIDE 3.1GB HD

I'm going to guess (may be wildly wrong) $300

> SCSI CD-ROM                IDE/ATAPI CD-ROM

I know that one.  $100 (local Houston price, both at the same vendor).  
12X ATAPI vs 8X SCSI, but effective thoughput speed should be about 
the same.

> SCSI Tape Drive            IDE/ATAPI Tape (do they exist?)

Depends on the drive.  AFAIK, all (generally considered to be) good
tapes are scsi.

> SCSI CD-R                  non-SCSI equivalent of CD-R

Haven't a clue.  Don't write CDs.

> 
> I heard that a SCSI adapter to manage so many devices at once would
> be around $150, plus the devices themselves will be more expensive. I
> would appreciate any input on this topic.

But a (used to be NCR, who are they now?) controller is only ~$80, and
it is among the fastest and best supported on FBSD.  It won't have a
BIOS at that price, but your motherboard may have one.  In any case, if
you maintain an IDE drive in the system, you can use it for the / partition,
and then you don't need a BIOS to boot.

> 
> > 
> > You miss my point (although I should not have been so all encompassing with
> > the "any unix" phrase).  There is no, zip, nada, interest in the development
> > team for working with these devices.  There have been many pleadings for 
> > people to work on the driver (rewrite or import from another Unix).  Nobody
> > stepped forward.  The main reason given was that these devices are all crap, 
> > and I concur with that assessment.  This is neither inherently good or bad; 
> > it's just the way things are.
> > 
> > YMMV, and you are free to disagree with this opinion.
> > 
> > Bud Dodson
> > 
> > PS (and others are welcome to comment on this point, as well, which I hope
> > will not be construed in any way as being any flavor of a flame),
> > 
> > As a relatively new (I think, correct me if I am wrong.) user of FreeBSD, 
> > you should be aware of the following "quirk" of our community (which _I_ do 
> > _not_ find at all confining): The interest levels of the active developers 
> > is a precious resource.  Pleading for them to write in special support for 
> > old, outdated, or funkily designed hardware is not likely to get very far.  
> > By and large they don't view this as a very good use of their time.  Most 
> > people come to realize that they have a good point when they think about 
> > it for awhile.  We are not Linux and don't want to be.
> > 
> > When we arrive at that conclusion, we just dump our old screwball hardware 
> > and get some good stuff.  (Or give it to the wife to use on her 
> > wordprocessing Win95 box.  Want my old QIC80 tape drive?  You can have it 
> > if you pay the shipping cost.)
> > 
> > If you can't generate interest, then you are on your own.  Which is how
> > most of the active developers got started in the first place, I believe.
> > 
> > I sincerely wish you good luck on your floppy tape; you will need it.
> > 
> > > 
> > > > Do yourself a favor and dump this floppy tape device.  It won't work worth
> > > > a damn on any unix.  Any cheap, supported, (even PIO types) scsi controller 
> > > 
> > > Not true. Someone should port the Linux ftape driver to FreeBSD. It allows
> > > 100% access to floppy tape drives via device files.
> > > 
> > 
> > --
> > M. L. Dodson                                bdodson@scms.utmb.edu
> > 409-772-2178                                FAX: 409-772-1790
> > 
> 

--
M. L. Dodson                                bdodson@scms.utmb.edu
409-772-2178                                FAX: 409-772-1790



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