From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu May 17 18:10:07 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9793216A401 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 18:10:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.192.81]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 820E213C459 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 18:10:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from icarus.home.lan (c-71-198-0-135.hsd1.ca.comcast.net[71.198.0.135]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with ESMTP id <20070517181006m11006gm9ce>; Thu, 17 May 2007 18:10:07 +0000 Received: by icarus.home.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4149E1FA020; Thu, 17 May 2007 11:10:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 11:10:06 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: Gavin Atkinson Message-ID: <20070517181006.GB69514@icarus.home.lan> Mail-Followup-To: Gavin Atkinson , Chris , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org References: <3aaaa3a0705170830g46487cc7occc8a51b82a9118b@mail.gmail.com> <1179420667.87418.22.camel@buffy.york.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1179420667.87418.22.camel@buffy.york.ac.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.15 (2007-04-06) Cc: Chris , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: fast rate of major FreeBSD releases to STABLE X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 18:10:07 -0000 On Thu, May 17, 2007 at 05:51:07PM +0100, Gavin Atkinson wrote: > On Thu, 2007-05-17 at 16:30 +0100, Chris wrote: > > A more user friendly installer so datacentres stop been put off FreeBSD. > > Although work on a new installer is "ongoing", nobody ever seems to be > clear what the problems are with the current installer that they are > trying to fix. I believe PC-BSD uses a different installer, which is > the current candidate, although I personally prefer the current one. > I'm guessing a new installer never make everybody happy. As someone who has had to show many people "how" to use the FreeBSD installer, I can confirm what Chris is referring to. Here's some of the generic end-user complaints I've heard (and some of which I have); 1) Difficult to tell what's in-focus (selectiom menu vs. OK/Cancel) on the screen. This could be solved by using a different colour for the selection area (instead of blue, use something like cyan/teal), I think. 2) Many buttons are labelled "Cancel" rather than "Go Back". Some cancel the entire operation (go back to the main menu), others go back a step. Users find this inconsistency to be confusing. 3) Conflicting definitions of keypresses in the menu vs. the OK/Cancel box at the bottom. For example, under Keymap, one of the menu items is labelled (C)entral European ISO, while "C" is also used for (C)ancel, depending upon which focus/menu context you're in. This confuses people. 4) Some Cancel/Abort items are labelled (C)ancel, others are (X)Exit. Make up your mind; people want a consistent key! 5) I forget which stage of the installation this happens in, but when choosing Cancel/Abort, the dialog you get asks you if you want to continue with the operation or abort. If you choose abort, it reboots the machine. This seems unnecessary. 6) I'll point out that you can hit "X" to jump to the "Exit" (go back) menu item, but *only* if that menu item is visible on the screen. I've heard numerous complaints about that as well (and personally I agree with it). 7) The Options menu area requires you to scroll all the way to the bottom of the left column of options, and further down past it to reach the right column. Users hit the Right Arrow key to go to the right column, which does nothing. 8) Video console is 80x25. I am quite happy with this myself, but some others want something larger. This gets complex since to get something larger I believe we require use of VESA. I thought I'd mention it anyways. 9) Lack of mouse support in the menus. I haven't confirmed this, but it seems to me that based on the installer's look, people expect the mouse to work. I personally don't like the mouse (I find gpm to be better/more responsive/capable than moused.), but their point is still valid. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB |