Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:44:57 -0500 From: Tom Embt <tom@embt.com> To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: P-II vs K6-2 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990316144457.0070c540@mail.embt.com> In-Reply-To: <19990316074818.A23561@ice.cold.org> References: <26656.921575352@critter.freebsd.dk> <199903160902.KAA23875@cicero1.cybercity.dk> <26656.921575352@critter.freebsd.dk>
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At 07:48 AM 3/16/99 -0700, you wrote: >On Tue, Mar 16, 1999 at 10:09:12AM +0100, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: >> In message <199903160902.KAA23875@cicero1.cybercity.dk>, "Rudy Gireyev" writes: >>>> In message <99Mar16.183042est.40331@border.alcanet.com.au>, Peter Jeremy writes >>>> : >>>>>I'm looking at buying a new system to augment my aging 486DX2-50. >>>>> >>>>>Would anyone like to comment on either a Tekram P5MVP-B4 with a K6-2 >>>>>processor, or a Tekram BX-series with a P-II? (I prefer the K6-2 >>>>>because I see no reason to support Intel's virtual monopoly). >>> >>>Then surely you've looked at buying Celerons first, right? :-) >> >> No, they're almost twice as expensive for the same performance... > >Not the same performance, nor are they twice as expensive (almost or >not)... > >Performance wise, Celeron runs its cache at full CPU speed--not the Bus >Speed (usually around 100Mhz now). Plus you can trivially overclock >it to 467Mhz (this is what I've done). The Intel BX motherboard costs >a mighty $30 more on the average than the VIA or Alladin equivalent >boards (I wont go into the arguments why it is better). The CPU costs >are pretty much exactly the same (K6-2/333 is the same as a Celeron >333 on the site I just checked). > [snipped rest of post] I must also defend the Celery 450A :) I would pretty much have to agree with Brandon here. If I were building a new computer for myself I would think Celeron before anything else. The new ones (300A and above, both PPGA and slot-1 types) built on the Mendecino core are an incredible value. I would say that >= 85% of them can run at 450MHz, sometimes beyond. Now remember that the multiplier on these chips are locked, like all Intel chips have been for the past few years (since the 166MMX days), so one is left with the nearly perfect solution of buying a Celeron made to run at a 66MHz bus and simply cranking it up to 100MHz, hence using a 3x PCI clock divider. This means all your PCI cards, AGP card, etc etc. are still perfectly within spec. Since the Mendocino core seems easily capable of running 450MHz, but 500MHz is less common, the best choice you can make is to get a Celeron 300A (66x4.5) and run it at 450MHz (100x4.5). The OEM 300A is currently available for $60-$70 from various places, but you'd also need to buy a decent fan to put on it. Retail versions cost more but you get the fan included, and some say they are more overclockable as well. Oh - and Malaysian chips are better than Costa-Rican chips. The L2 cache on the Celly's does, as Brandon said, run at full core speed. So forget the people that laugh at the Celeron because it only has a puny 128KB of L2. A 450MHz Celeron's L2 is running at 450MHz, whereas a 450MHz Pentium-II's cache is running at 225MHz (real P2's run it at half core speed, not bus speed as some people think), and a 450MHz K6-2's cache is running at 100MHz (assuming a Super-7 board). And if you're so inclined, Abit just released some BIOS images that let you tweak the timings of the L2 cache as well. For motherboards, there is IMO only one question to ask yourself. If you are not trying to run SMP, then go with an Abit board. The BH-6 is the all time favorite in this area, but the newer BX6-2 might also be worth a look. I personally don't like the Asus boards, they seem to always have BIOS compatibility problems or are not quite as stable as the Abit boards. (No flames please, it's just my opinion) If you do want to run SMP (and yes the Celly's can do this, you should just get the PPGA version and some slotkits, and get out the ol' soldering iron :) I'm not really sure what the best dual CPU board would be, but I think http://www.bxboards.com was gonna do a review. Oh, and I also believe the Intel chipsets to be superior. Go with a BX chipset board and you will be happy. I'll admit that this solution isn't for everybody. You are not guaranteed that your 300A will do 450MHz (but for the price of them, if it doesn't you can buy another one!) but most do. You _might_ have to increase the voltage a tenth or two to make it stable (mine is running at 2.1v). But, if your luck is as good as all the other people running 450A's (as we call em) you will have a system every bit as fast as a real P2-450 for a fraction of the cost. And it is a real P2 core, so you can compile your kernel with 686 optimizations if you like. And even if you DON'T overclock, the Celeron's are STILL a good value. You will still have something that beats the pants off that 486 and will happily accept a faster Slot-1 chip in the future. IMO Shopping list should include: Intel Celeron 300A (either get the retail or buy a seperate fan) Abit BH-6 or BX6-2 motherboard Inwin A-500 ATX midtower case (if you need an ATX case) 64MB of PC100 (beware some stuff marked PC100 is NOT PC100) Well, if you are interested in going with a Celery, go read http://www.bxboards.com and surf the newsgroups ala http://www.dejanews.com . If not, well, maybe someone will gain some info from this rather longwinded post of mine. My $.02 and then some, Tom Embt ICQ UIN: 11245398 tom@embt.com d:-)> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Windows 98: n. 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