From owner-cvs-all@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 8 08:19:34 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cvs-all@freebsd.org Delivered-To: cvs-all@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3612116A492; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 08:19:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ceri@submonkey.net) Received: from shrike.submonkey.net (cpc2-cdif2-0-0-cust107.cdif.cable.ntl.com [81.104.168.108]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E7A643D69; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 08:19:33 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ceri@submonkey.net) Received: from ceri by shrike.submonkey.net with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ghiei-0000xy-Kz; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 08:19:32 +0000 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 08:19:32 +0000 From: Ceri Davies To: Max Laier Message-ID: <20061108081932.GR83597@submonkey.net> Mail-Followup-To: Ceri Davies , Max Laier , cvs-doc@freebsd.org, Daniel Gerzo , doc-committers@freebsd.org, cvs-all@freebsd.org References: <200611071654.kA7GsWbj097708@repoman.freebsd.org> <20061107185552.GD83597@submonkey.net> <200611072054.30906.max@love2party.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Ayym4vmyMU9P4uDb" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200611072054.30906.max@love2party.net> X-PGP: finger ceri@FreeBSD.org User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) Sender: Ceri Davies Cc: Daniel Gerzo , doc-committers@freebsd.org, cvs-doc@freebsd.org, cvs-all@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: www/en about.sgml X-BeenThere: cvs-all@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: CVS commit messages for the entire tree List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 08:19:34 -0000 --Ayym4vmyMU9P4uDb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Nov 07, 2006 at 08:54:23PM +0100, Max Laier wrote: > [ Not a native speaker ] >=20 > On Tuesday 07 November 2006 19:55, Ceri Davies wrote: > > On Tue, Nov 07, 2006 at 04:54:31PM +0000, Daniel Gerzo wrote: > > > danger 2006-11-07 16:54:31 UTC > > > > > > FreeBSD doc repository > > > > > > Modified files: > > > en about.sgml > > > Log: > > > - improve grammar > > > > > > | @@ -54,7 +54,7 @@ > > > | including CD-ROM, DVD-ROM, floppy disk, magnetic tape, > > > | an MS-DOS® partition, or if you have a network > > > | connection, you can install it directly over > > > | - anonymous FTP or NFS. All you need is > > > | + anonymous FTP or NFS. All you need are > > > | > > | =20 > > > | href=3D"&base;/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/install.html">the= se > > > | directions.

> > > > This change isn't correct - "these directions" is the object of this > > sentence and the verb "is" should agree with the subject "all you > > need", which is singular. >=20 > I was confused by this, can you tell me if the following sounds right? >=20 > The subject is "All", "you need" is a relative clause (think "All (that)= =20 > you need"). According to http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary/all the= =20 > pronoun can be either singular or plural - depending on the part of the= =20 > meaning you want to emphasis. I don't think it's relative as it's not adding a subclause. Section 5.64 of the CMS suggests that it's (in the terminology of the CMS, of course) an indefinite pronoun, in that it "indefinitely represents an object, usually one that [..] doesn't need specific identification". It then goes on to state that indefinite pronouns have number and are usually singular when taken as the subject, but will sometimes carry a plural sense. The example given for this is: "Everyone understood the risk, but they were lured by promises of big returns." which I think is clearer given in the present: "Everyone understands the risk, but they are lured by promises of big returns." So it seems that we're talking about whether the original sentence carries a plural sense or not. I don't feel that it does, despite the plurality of the object. "Everyone needs these directions." I'm down with this. "All you need are these directions." Still don't like it. Perhaps we should use something that John mentioned, which is: "These directions are all you need." which I think sounds more affirmative and gets to the point (the directions) immediately. > > See sections 5.23 and 5.24 of the CMS. >=20 > Forgive my ignorance, what is the CMS? The Chicago Manual of Style. It's ~1000 pages of style information used by The University of Chicago Press for their publications. It contains a lot of information about typesetting, capitalisation in headers, preferred spellings, citations, etc., and in American English which is useful for those of us what speak proper. Not something you'll read on the train, but useful in the reference section. Ceri --=20 That must be wonderful! I don't understand it at all. -- Moliere --Ayym4vmyMU9P4uDb Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFFUZMUocfcwTS3JF8RAn7jAKCe16rrjjPMCsF5Wnzh09rIbwapkACgqbyl D7pk8bRGucjjYDeO8EX9F+Q= =j1fF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Ayym4vmyMU9P4uDb--