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[2.247.252.45]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id g25sm11461998wmh.3.2020.02.26.16.27.01 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 26 Feb 2020 16:27:01 -0800 (PST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Klaus_K=C3=BCchemann?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3608.60.0.2.5\)) Subject: Re: Showstoppers for RPI3 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 01:27:00 +0100 References: <20200225175446.GA77976@www.zefox.net> <11951E01-EC13-4FBB-938A-AEB5700C4281@yahoo.com> <20200226052045.GA79939@www.zefox.net> <04e8e290e5d7bb810f76ece4ff33d6e1006e63cd.camel@freebsd.org> <280455B5-E201-494F-A4EB-2426A12B7E2C@googlemail.com> <20200226235908.GD22189@lonesome.com> To: Mark Linimon , Ian Lepore , Kyle Evans , freebsd-arm@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20200226235908.GD22189@lonesome.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.60.0.2.5) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 48SZ496BHMz3NRL X-Spamd-Bar: +++++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [5.97 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(0.00)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[googlemail.com]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[googlemail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(0.00)[googlemail.com,quarantine]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[45.252.247.2.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.10]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[googlemail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[googlemail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_XBL(5.00)[45.252.247.2.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.4]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(0.00)[googlemail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (-9.23), ipnet: 2a00:1450::/32(-2.41), asn: 15169(-1.67), country: US(-0.05)]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.28)[0.277,0]; BAD_REP_POLICIES(0.10)[]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.20)[0.198,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[9.2.2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.5.4.1.0.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arm@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Porting FreeBSD to ARM processors." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 00:56:27 -0000 Hi Mark, > Am 27.02.2020 um 00:59 schrieb Mark Linimon : >=20 > On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 05:11:35PM +0100, Klaus K=C3=BCchemann via = freebsd-arm wrote: >> but Ed Maste stated a clear aarch64->Tier1-roadmap >=20 > I'll try not to speak for Ed here other than to say I know he often = sees > things from the "aarch64 server box installed in rack" view. And IIUC > we do fairly well on those. No problem to install a bunch of crappy consumer boards into a = server-rack :-).. just kidding.. > Mark Linimon >=20 > The problem is that aarch64 has this bewildering variety of hardware; > some very capable and well-documented, others not so. >=20 > IMHO there's no possible way that we can be a first-class platform on > every single arm board that's ever been made It=E2=80=99s all better than we think, it=E2=80=99s just time consuming = and a thing of organization=20 Maybe not for every board but for nearly every board which is worth .. > Mark Linimon >=20 >> and it looks funny when we fail in supporting devices while others do >=20 > If NetBSD has drivers, then we should see if there is interest in = porting > them over. Finally a reasonable attitude from someone here, Mark > Mark Linimon >=20 > (The number of people on the two projects differs a lot, especially = w/rt > non-x86 platforms, so it's kind of hard to say in general. I do know = we > are ahead w/rt powerpc64.) >=20 > But the real roadblock is the chips whose specs are under NDA. No one > seems to have any ideas of how to work around that. So, if we can't > work around it, and also can't port otherBSD drivers, we are stuck. also OpenBSD is very successful active in this discipline=E2=80=A6 Today I=E2=80=99ve got a Broadcom-Wifi-device to work (with an = openbsd-driver-dev) > Am 27.02.2020 um 01:03 schrieb Mark Linimon : >=20 > On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 07:27:37AM -0600, Kyle Evans wrote: >> This platform is on life support on FreeBSD with exactly maybe two >> developers doing anything on it >=20 > I am hoping that by "this platform" you mean RPI4? >=20 > There are certainly more people working on the ports side than just 2. >=20 >> it's highly demotivating to then receive comments like this. >=20 > I've talked to Klaus as some length and I think part of all this is > due to a language barrier. Thanks Mark, yes, I say sorry again to Kyle and Ian, Kyle is the one who made the RPI4 booting, who am I that I could think I had the right to say something bad to him = or other devs ?! . I couldn't just explain in native English language what I meant.. Hopefully these sentences do work in yours native English language :-) >=20 > But it is *very* frustrating to have developers saying "we *must* > have RPI4" and "we *cannot* have RPI4" -- even for someone like me > whose only involvement is trying to update documentation. >=20 > mcl We`lll update the docs, for sure, there=E2=80=99s of course no must have = for any gadget=20 But there are a lot which work and can be improved e.g. by adopting = drivers from other BSDs, If here are none available..=20 Thank you=20 Regards Klaus