From owner-svn-src-head@freebsd.org Fri Aug 19 14:23:33 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-head@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEAEABBE71A for ; Fri, 19 Aug 2016 14:23:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-io0-x22f.google.com (mail-io0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B41E61F93 for ; Fri, 19 Aug 2016 14:23:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-io0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id m101so49638346ioi.2 for ; Fri, 19 Aug 2016 07:23:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=zLVgCSfTZmemUtK+6Izrubttf8rBWRaCRFnMQRY18PY=; b=MAS2yod/C7uyF/Pf6SmxDkTwFNV39XCXP3GYo/6PCqMJj2laQz3ZD/GNItETZQejez Cift6Yl21n54oPT/u4VtVePdIeoR5OI1LJ7kyTjG1sE4dDhgKBp8wzLUYwSQKJjJVTs9 +uHFBuEs/1rkyGsqR+svnO6H+TOkywCACXzHnMO4S9bc/dMd1s6lnH7neSQ32mWUHXQy QyYQ/k4jR5Fg1LNDyrvNRPElZIT29RNzenCvydNSo3ayBxXjqdy15IRcLMXwHzIXMzot +cc35fLGH5FIe4AC2icC0feFSBTjOearEtUbkW+i8dQyGeq+eDWFDSMfRPW2nN2oGqgk QUiA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=zLVgCSfTZmemUtK+6Izrubttf8rBWRaCRFnMQRY18PY=; b=F001WPeK+dXVp7nqX05mNqZNfTCXp9PzHt5S3WQTwpBW2HSFnh1c2CtGuL4qgbN6hn 0LxrMqpef/A+14C5GaRsQRHZOXNtPhe1y/4cbsBsshVxli+rCCqXFUZRdHK4Z1sB5K09 YiIQmEbSnXRJhci2QmoLAYkajs+2Zbhb9154sKH4Ez1+ZJMx95gOg94aTLnT2YCw4ucs D3PByOvoVm0N6LGTOIooHDRQni0HBhBRtjEnyoNRwN31F+6wmHhSxbnbUuCx9lpYEehk T88eqRElLzmDYgpWGVaUIMBjiZ5CALXjkhrbei9NFAmLtCBK+NQRkl87VdtoFT9jbBHl 8Ryg== X-Gm-Message-State: AEkoouvwKzkEbH9x0rh9EW9XSqAC8jcM5zzcYXIj0gzLyQh4bRhVm/O2hD8s43V8fGosVTMj2gZf9+qIMwRotQ== X-Received: by 10.107.21.134 with SMTP id 128mr9765364iov.59.1471616613066; Fri, 19 Aug 2016 07:23:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: wlosh@bsdimp.com Received: by 10.36.65.7 with HTTP; Fri, 19 Aug 2016 07:23:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [50.253.99.174] In-Reply-To: <20160819112729.GH83214@kib.kiev.ua> References: <201608152038.u7FKc2NL026330@repo.freebsd.org> <2065331.KaGOSftJhd@ralph.baldwin.cx> <0d6c2e45-e4da-9bb7-a50c-212135d9ac4f@freebsd.org> <20160819073955.GC83214@kib.kiev.ua> <20160819202010.Y2407@besplex.bde.org> <20160819112729.GH83214@kib.kiev.ua> From: Warner Losh Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 08:23:32 -0600 X-Google-Sender-Auth: cXFAmKjKlxTW8VfMOC6WvJUMggg Message-ID: Subject: Re: svn commit: r304187 - in head: . share/man/man4 sys/conf sys/dev/mcd sys/modules sys/modules/mcd To: Konstantin Belousov Cc: Bruce Evans , Julian Elischer , John Baldwin , src-committers , "svn-src-all@freebsd.org" , "svn-src-head@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: svn-src-head@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: SVN commit messages for the src tree for head/-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 14:23:34 -0000 On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 5:27 AM, Konstantin Belousov wrote: > On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 09:12:53PM +1000, Bruce Evans wrote: >> On Fri, 19 Aug 2016, Konstantin Belousov wrote: >> >> > On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 09:28:57PM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: >> >> On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 12:50 AM, Julian Elischer wrote: >> >>> On 16/08/2016 4:54 AM, John Baldwin wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> On Monday, August 15, 2016 08:38:02 PM John Baldwin wrote: >> >>>>> ,,, >> >>>>> Log: >> >>>>> Remove the mcd(4) driver for Mitsumi CD-ROM players. >> >>>>> This is a driver for a pre-ATAPI ISA CD-ROM adapter. As noted in >> >>>>> the manpage, this driver is only useful as a backend to cdcontrol to >> >>>>> play audio CDs since it doesn't use DMA, so its data performance is >> >>>>> "abysmal" (and that was true in the mid 90's). >> >>>> >> >>>> No one stepped up to test patches for it either when I last posted patches >> >>>> to >> >>>> convert it from timeout(9) to callout(9). I have a few more drivers that >> >>>> are >> >>>> ... >> >>> >> >>> I would imagine any machine still holding one of these probably has not >> >>> enough memory to run FreeBSD. >> >>> >> >>> would we still run in 2MB? >> >> >> >> With insane levels of tuning, we can run in 32MB userland that can do >> >> things. Even 64MB is tight w/o some tuning. 16MB is almost certainly >> >> right out except for very specialized situations. 2MB? We can't even >> >> load the loader in that :(. Oh, and all these memory configs are only >> >> possible if you tweak the loader's block cache... >> > >> > 32MB is quite usable. Without any tuning, you get slightly less than 10MB >> > for userspace, which is enough to for many things, and plenty if swap is >> > added. >> >> No, 32MB needs lots of needs tuning. -current seems to need about 16MB >> more than just a few months ago when I last discussed this with you. >> My i386 system doesn't have many drivers or a bloated userland (*), >> but it took the following tuning plus my PAE tuning fixes to boot in >> 32MB: >> - disable [l]em1 >> - reduce tx and buffers to 256 for em0. They default to 4096 for em. That >> is something like 8K * 1500 bytes = 12MB for em0 alone. lem[1] wants >> another 12MB. I think this is not all statically allocated, but the >> drivers hang onto that much. >> This now longer works. -current without my PAE tuning fixes hangs mounting >> root or in usb initialization with this tuning and 40MB. -current with my >> PAE tuning fixes hangs similarly with 32MB; with 40MB it boots to the >> start of multiuser but then hangs (it starts 1 getty, then 2 sendmails >> and kills them with "out of swap space") and 1 rpcbind (also killed). I >> don't use swap, but it was needed 20 years ago on a system that actually >> had 32MB of memory. >> >> (*) /bin/sh doing nothing much in -current i386: size 6532K res 1924K >> /bin/sh in my ~5.2 i386: size 864K res 592K >> >> The kernel size is 5.5MB text 370K data 2.2MB bss (lots of bloat in bss >> for debugging and vt). In single user mode, with 40MB to start, there >> is 22116K wired and 2516K free. A few programs can be run in 2516K >> without swap if they have res 592K and not 1924K. >> >> > Note that you cannot boot on such configurations since loader was broken, >> > but if you do manage to jump to kernel, things were fine several months >> > ago. I tested my relatively recent OOM changes on 32MB qemu config. >> >> I have no problems booting such configuratations since I don't use the >> current loader and only use old loader to change the environment to >> set up special configurations like this. I use my version of biosboot >> for boot2. This requires fixing 2 layers of complicated breakage in >> init386(). vm86 is now used before the TSS and PIC resources that it >> uses are initialized, but only in paths that are not normally used >> because they are for memory sizing that is normally done by loader >> :-(. >> >> I normally use my version of biosboot for boot2. I improved its caching >> just a couple of years ago. It was using 9K buffer optimized for 1440K >> floppies. Now it uses a 32K buffer. Booting a 5.5MB kernel takes a >> fraction of a second. Of course I don't use modules, so not many seeks >> are needed. > > Of course I use modules and do not use GENERIC. I just tried: with today > HEAD, and old loader on 32MB VM, I get 11MB free in single-user mode. > Active+inactive is ~4MB, and 1M is eaten by buffers, which is about right > for init+/bin/sh+top idle system. The situation on x86 must be a lot better than arm. My old Atmel boards with 32MB have < 1MB free when booted to the login prompt (more at single user) and need special tuning to reduce the 5MB of network buffers allocated to be anything approaching useful. Warner