Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2014 17:36:50 +0100 From: Johan Bucht <jbucht@gmail.com> To: by <free7by@yahoo.com> Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Something related to C and C++ Message-ID: <CABze5AA-Y%2Ba-DsftK8_sz=mspJ4A6uaqfTpGeqozWQ%2BvpM7=Kw@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <DD029BFE-D06E-4102-915D-B379D8200A9F@yahoo.com> References: <B2051FAA-63AA-4F96-90BA-84157CE1F7AB@yahoo.com> <20140317103830.53c42ade@X220.alogt.com> <611B8DE5-F593-4574-96AB-0965CA7EDF33@yahoo.com> <CABze5AD6STPLfriTJJazM%2BqhHJkVtBMgMzNWsQi%2B6vMkWox_0g@mail.gmail.com> <5326D093.90308@yahoo.com> <CABze5AC6WZfyG9VYUunCjtQS66mY1Ahfu%2BMhYN=SkJgR%2BTHcLw@mail.gmail.com> <39562806-80F4-4D4C-BAFD-20DCB537B303@yahoo.com> <DD029BFE-D06E-4102-915D-B379D8200A9F@yahoo.com>
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The systems programming class in university was a lot about rewriting common unix tools from 'cut' to a shell and network programming. On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 5:22 PM, by <free7by@yahoo.com> wrote: > By the way, who knows how to improve C skills? Cause I am a newbie, and I > am reading the book <<The C Programming Language>> > But I plan read it a little everyday, so any other methods? > > - by > > > On Mar 18, 2014, at 0:15, by <free7by@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > I totally agree with you! > > Actually, now I prefer the domain which is not too low but not too high > neither, in a word, I think being a system programmer should be cool. > > > > - by > > > >> On Mar 17, 2014, at 21:22, Johan Bucht <jbucht@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> As there are different strengths and weaknesses resulting from the > design decisions chosen for the different languages, learn as many > different types as you can and experience how they shape solutions to > problems in different ways and how you reason about them. > >> > >> "I have never met anybody who has changed their reasoning first and > their habits second. You change your habits first." > >> > >> The end goal is to solve problems in your domain, having a languages > that maps perfectly to that domain (or makes it easy to create domain > specific languages in) will certainly make it easier to read and write that > code. But is it worth creating and maintaining that language for a small > domain and train people in it? General purpose languages exists because of > this. They might not map perfectly to the domain, but they have familiarity > and cross breeding between users in different domains. > >> Some languages are really small with little functionality included in > the standard library, others are huge and contain a lot of seldom used > functionality. For the small languages you might need to write common > functionality yourself or find something someone else has written. For > large languages you get that for free and most users will use what's > provided. You get a standard way of solving problems, but the tools might > not be best of breed or suit your specific use case. > >> > >> /Johan > >> > >> > >>> On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 11:38 AM, by <free7by@yahoo.com> wrote: > >>> Yes, you are right, i have some prejudice for C++ before, but now, i > think i won't, cause if i have not deeply working for some languages, > technologies, i have no right to judge it, i need more and more practice : ) > >>> Different fields got different technologies, the only key i think is > that which field you prefer, and what kind of technology you prefer. > >>> > >>> - by > >>> > >>> > >>>> On 2014/3/17 17:14, Johan Bucht wrote: > >>>> Working in higher level languages like Java, Ruby, Python and C++ > does have > >>>> some advantages to C and some disadvantages. There are always trade > offs > >>>> and there will always be languages closer to the domain that will be > more > >>>> elegant to solve specific problems. > >>>> If you're mainly doing programming close to the hardware the > abstractions > >>>> from those higher level languages doesn't add much value and the > runtime > >>>> with garbage collection and more is something you probably need to be > able > >>>> to turn off. > >>>> It's of course possible to implement a lot of the features in higher > level > >>>> languages in lower level ones, but the syntax will not be that > suitable for > >>>> it and you need to impose restrictions on yourself instead of the > language > >>>> doing it for you. > >>>> For some tasks C is too high level and Assembler is needed but for > most of > >>>> the tasks any language will do and it's a matter of personal taste. > >>>> > >>>> /Johan > >>>> > >>>>> On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 3:50 AM, by <free7by@yahoo.com> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Well, I think C++'s popular has something related to C's popular > use, but > >>>>> it contains too much, I prefer simple tool, do one thing, and do it > well, > >>>>> no more extras, and build a system with their combinations, at least > the > >>>>> base system. > >>>>> > >>>>> - by > >>>>> > >>>>>> On Mar 17, 2014, at 10:38, Erich Dollansky <erich@alogt.com> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hi, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 10:20:55 +0800 > >>>>>> by <free7by@yahoo.com> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> as C++ is C plus 'some' extras, just start with C. When you know C - > >>>>>> which you have to know anyway to write C++ programs - you can add > C++ > >>>>>> to your knowledge. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Never forget that object orientated programming is much older than > C++ > >>>>>> and can be done in most languages. I did my first steps in object > >>>>>> orientated programming in 8080 assembler without even knowing that > >>>>>> what I did will be later be known as object orientated programming. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The little programming I still do is all done in C but using some of > >>>>>> the 'addons' of C++. So, all my sources are .cpp files. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Erich > >>>>>>> Hi, > >>>>>>> At first, I would say, I do not want to lead to a holy war between > >>>>>>> programming languages, and I am a newbie in this field, but I am > >>>>>>> confused about this, so I want get some answers or discusses from > >>>>>>> here to help me thinking about this. I found that in IT industry, > C++ > >>>>>>> has more and more users, I can understand why they do this, C++ can > >>>>>>> make them build system more easy than C does. okay, I just know a > >>>>>>> little about C++, but in my feeling, C++ can make you do things in > a > >>>>>>> higher place. Yes, C++ is great, but for me, it is too difficult, > or > >>>>>>> I would say, it is too complicated. I got two books in my hand, one > >>>>>>> is <<The C Programming Language>>, another is <<The C++ Programming > >>>>>>> Language>>. Just consider from the weight : ) You can find > something. > >>>>>>> Language>>In the past, GCC use C, but now it turn to C++, and LLVM > is > >>>>>>> Language>>written by C++. Yes I prefer C now, and you may say, you > >>>>>>> Language>>have not use these two languages deeply, how could you > >>>>>>> Language>>judge them? Yes, I know I should not judge them, but as a > >>>>>>> Language>>newbie, this is my very feeling, just like a kid first > >>>>>>> Language>>looking at this world! Simple, but confused. At last, I > am > >>>>>>> Language>>not lead to a holy war between programming languages, I > >>>>>>> Language>>just confused and want some related answers. This is it. > : ) > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> - by > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > >>>>>>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to > >>>>>>> "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > >>>>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > >>>>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > >>>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > >>>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >
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