From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Sep 11 20:54:28 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAA65109D94A for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 20:54:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gurenchan@gmail.com) Received: from mail-it0-x230.google.com (mail-it0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 42F888A75E for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 20:54:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gurenchan@gmail.com) Received: by mail-it0-x230.google.com with SMTP id 139-v6so165902itf.0 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 13:54:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=yOLkHT6QFzhuotfCzgyVoXOUK+crOUrufyIqZinVcD8=; b=I84uYHEEybWAziTEc//osSGOls3wdwkVInjBYkrUb9BmHoob6zpxtXFmJ5cx5LFprl wXUGZFB1Q++xK7aFUn6pp2CXlrMmNPixMeoUYu5Mny6QGZPMCsF1kexe+UGk3dUO2RTr EgW/3LEAOVa6nc6T5q5NQ+J912lvEZeokNpFnD+b+IXpY53S/RnH8lIVxmLoWYkSOJXf zPIH2aH/ew0r8dir0FVdz8l4xCpABPrqZo+1PalyYT2shrOYJBefXkyGWF9PpaKzzvZy 6rLbinzgPgrfxBwRH6pDacoYO6KwQYaJwZkmjj5sRztpT3g9CHMhX65mwyxAdR5CA2Vx R1aQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=yOLkHT6QFzhuotfCzgyVoXOUK+crOUrufyIqZinVcD8=; b=EGp6FOEfjRyr9bFW0YWprw3QrfUwbaWYHA9R/MJSfhAjI/Fer5jjBWopyEDv7mjf+L S1OsVvpq3tpqcDIubUGVzGiZ00Z4n3PVM7SHFqsBH2VcRT86IYB/3pNkVjcpWeW/hhgM klcpKeK3R1WvoNoXaJU8swRUypISx3UIIOmYKmABM9n/YToIpRNi1RjSovDtuAWZz5Ee zng0fVISlGToRO2EOkQV/wkWxPhA8aSzE+3v4KDag16yFBYjgMnOtFFOekfGQ/zocRSP BV5GlFNipWrFCUXvPbFT+Y+lK1OGkblhJ+BdcMqYLzpNrp9CWDOKN6MFBsrJsf4qCPQp iTHA== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51BJ24JqCRqerIpgp+I0xB61ddCFtRF9mkhTSHvciVRT6F7+SBoz yKoMEMb8UUtFvLjpw+nP9PUlzFQnkndYICYr7lBUmg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0Vda7BXChOjrg/rexPCKA88YWTiME1EzVBLKdEkrHkV9pA8xOuwyc8urbV8+ImXM2VoGyS8YmwyaaEVCviI1LW40= X-Received: by 2002:a02:1643:: with SMTP id a64-v6mr24524496jaa.133.1536699266320; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 13:54:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: blubee blubeeme Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 04:54:24 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [OT] Is the IT Crowd re-inventing Unix with Virtualization, Docker and Microservices? To: Alejandro Imass Cc: FreeBSD Questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.27 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2018 20:54:28 -0000 On Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 03:13 Alejandro Imass wrote: > Hi all, > > I guess it's time for another food for thought email of like-minded > FreeBSDers, as I am coming to a new conclusion about this whole enterprise > crap world of which I am so evermore fed up of... > > For me it all started with a comment about Theo de Raadt's visionary > comment here, brought to light by Ian Smith in 2017: > > > https://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=117621+0+archive/2017/freebsd-questions/20170820.freebsd-questions > > At the time I was going through Java / AWS hell so I posted this rant which > was followed up by interesting and diverse commentary: > > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ml-freebsd-questions/bMlBTj4Xx_Q > > And now I have been recently exposed to the pinnacle of enterprise crap: > microservices. > > Not saying that they are not a good idea, on the contrary, they are! But is > this all really that new?? > > So modern-day microservices rely heavily on virtualization (Linux on AWS), > pseudo-virtualization (Docker), and well, the microservices themselves. > > They bring on a whole new set of challenges such as log unification > (usually through something like Elastic Search, Log Stash, Kibana, Beats, > etc.), and IPC (through an MQ su as Apache Kafka). Plus a whole new pile of > shit that they are throwing at this microservices "architectures" such as > Hystrix and of course, everyone needs to be "streaming" so they throw in > stuff like Spring Reactor or RxJava, "new" Actor design patterns like Akka > (actually invented in 1973) and well, whatever other thing that Netflix or > Amazon use, then everyone else has got to use them too. > > Read any book on the subject and well, cry. Talk about layers and layers, > upon layers and layers of crap, basically to achieve something like, well: > Unix, TCP/IP and HTTP. > > So let me breakdown a few of these things so you get what I'm saying: > > Reactive Streams: a new FAD designed to handle "back pressure" and vertical > scaling by taking advantage of multi-core CPU's and low-level caching > issues etc. Well, guess what, enterprise idiots: that's EXACTY why you want > a solid Operating System that sits on, and it's fined tuned to that > specific real hardware! and with regards to back-pressure, old school > protocols such as HTTP have had things like 503 and RetryAfter header from > their original design!! > > It's so funny that most of these things are for multi-core optimizations > that are not even running on real hardware! > > Log Unification: well how about a little education on RFC 3164 and Log > Analyzer? > > Virtualization: isn't this what Unix basically is? I mean the concept of > processes that are running and sharing resources is that not virtualization > by principle? > > Pseudo-Virtuzalization: Isn't this what chroot and BSD Jails do? Oh you > want an easy interface like Docker, well how about EzJail? > > IPC: Isn't that what pipes and SYS 5 IPC provide: an MQ, Shared Mem and > Semaphores? Oh too slow? (really? compared to what?). > > And finally the crown jewel: microservices. Well, isn't this one of the > basic design principles of Unix? I mean tiny little things that talk well > to each other to build big things with? > > Honestly I could go on but I thing you get the idea. It seems that this > whole "enterprise" industry has been hell-bent on re-inventing a big, bad, > ugly and expensive version of Unix, just because they don't want to tie > their design to Unix? For portability? to what?, well to another flavour of > Unix called Linux, running on Xen and well, Linux. > > Is there are real proof that all this microservices crap is really that > much better than individual processes (e.g. built with sh, Perl and/or C) > running on a fined-tuned Unix system on real hardware? > > Oh yeah, that's right, high-level guys are too expensive? really? compared > to what? to the dozens and dozens of mediocre "coders", "devops", > "techops"and whatever other "ops". Yeah, we are way more expensive but we > are 50:1, maybe 100:1 compared the median in the "enterprise" side of > things. > > Steve Jobs was so right about the "dynamic range"of A players: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yh7ikSQwKg > > Anyway, that's my rant of the year ;-) > > Thanks so much for FreeBSD!! > > > -- > > Alex > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > It's not just micro services, look at Wayland. By the time they're finished it'll be X10.5