From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Oct 27 06:13:01 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C845243EB6A for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 06:13:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf-mardorf@riseup.net) Received: from mx1.riseup.net (mx1.riseup.net [198.252.153.129]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Sectigo RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CL1bJ53Zhz4Mnr for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 06:13:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf-mardorf@riseup.net) Received: from bell.riseup.net (bell-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.178]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Sectigo RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (not verified)) by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CL1b64D6NzFf49 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 23:12:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=riseup.net; s=squak; t=1603779170; bh=F7jIobhUcVmSGjF01Rb6CBOtB43o92vZSKGcHJICb0w=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=Yzj6xzydi+5Wg8mNVCHm6Dsb7HifE7qcva+ffqENzyIdgA7BJt/Xdv4THOwxpcNmZ Mqc8Nqq33TsZ7bEFy/MmT/tbi7sMUMO87dQbrLkrWP1Be4l98v/TK7aMPyQIhUxyUg klorS2NGjKFN7UfRh+YpdC8hCE67Q3Aka+3zAn64= X-Riseup-User-ID: 74C77C2D43504B61AE973ABE4C3E1ABF0A43AB71E2BCF15A5AC13BC16F883DED Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bell.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4CL1b60zkHzJqlj for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 23:12:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 07:12:30 +0100 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? Message-ID: <20201027071230.0c60b09b@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <20201026230836.5cd9e0dc@gumby.homeunix.com> References: <20201024111010.5c867e8540a369b826d26703@sohara.org> <20201025065025.6a13dc89@archlinux> <20201025173321.8adee3e5.freebsd@edvax.de> <20201026153012.0cf46ec8@gumby.homeunix.com> <10e0134ddb726ac78174a63bd20ec0bdeb3c896d.camel@riseup.net> <20201026180155.48690495@archlinux> <20201026230836.5cd9e0dc@gumby.homeunix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CL1bJ53Zhz4Mnr X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=riseup.net header.s=squak header.b=Yzj6xzyd; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=riseup.net; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ralf-mardorf@riseup.net designates 198.252.153.129 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ralf-mardorf@riseup.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.48 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[198.252.153.129:from]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[riseup.net:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[riseup.net,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.92)[-0.923]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16652, ipnet:198.252.153.0/24, country:US]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[198.252.153.129:from]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.97)[-0.966]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[riseup.net:s=squak]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.993]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[riseup.net:dkim]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 06:13:01 -0000 On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 23:08:36 +0000, RW via freebsd-questions wrote: >On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 18:01:55 +0100 >Ralf Mardorf wrote: > >> On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 17:51:04 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >> >In my experiences it isn't a myth. The intern HDDs of my PCs did >> >last for around 2 years, when turning the computer off and on >> >several times a day and they did last for around 7 years, if the >> >machine runs more or less 24/7. >> >> Btw. almost all of the times drives of both kind of usage failed with >> a click, click noise, because they were unable to release the heads. >> > >If the head was stuck then why did it click? Clicking suggests the >head moved. > >My guess is that it attempted something 3 times and parked after each >failure. It's most likely the most occurring breakage of desktop PC hard disk drives, not just something I accidentally experienced. It's not literally a click, click noise, it's an endless click, click, click ... click noise. If you slap the drive, the heads often are release (this is not just my guess, but it's a guess), but this works just a few times and even after the heads are released (or whatever else) the drive not necessarily works without issues and likely just for a few minutes. This article mentions that the click noise is the most common signal of a breakage: https://drivesaversdatarecovery.com/blog/what-causes-hard-drive-clicking/ Ok, if this article should be correct, the issue aren't heads that can't be released, but "over time, the actuator arm can become worn out and begin to malfunction, resulting in a hard drive clicking sound". The article mentions "Physical damage This is probably the most obvious cause of hard drive damage, so it deserves to be mentioned. Hard drive clicking can start after the drive has been dropped, moistened, exposed to fire, subjected to high magnetic fields and more." Unlikely many desktop PCs suffer from "been dropped, moistened, exposed to fire, subjected to high magnetic fields". The highest physical impact to arms and heads IMO is parking. Be that as it may. Back to the original topic. Let's assume that neither parking heads is an issue, nor static electricity. When using a hot swap drive bay instead of a boot loader, to multi-boot between several operating systems, the chances are good, that soon or later a HDD will be dropped. For a home used desktop PC backups and archiving data done by a hot swap drive bay and/or drives in external enclosures makes sense. OTOH IMO it's not a good approach to multi-boot. To avoid physical risks it's way better to use internal drives, let alone that it's way more comfortable. If multi-boot means that the OP just wants to test a few operating systems or seldom wants to use different operating systems, than a hot swap drive bay and/or drives in external enclosures and/or even USB sticks, SD cards etc. make sense. "Really" often used operating systems are better a part of desktop PC and aren't treat by a games console cartridge approach.