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Date:      Wed, 12 Aug 2015 05:44:26 -0700
From:      Patrick Powell <papowell@astart.com>
To:        freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: Sparc64 support
Message-ID:  <55CB3FAA.5020507@astart.com>
In-Reply-To: <55C9F8D2.5030704@digiware.nl>
References:  <CAA3ZYrA0YAGtGHhcv1MJDGAdNBU31_dJ6Y0Fihpce91La=YVZQ@mail.gmail.com> <16D597AE-613F-431F-8F56-30A8908F1913@me.com> <55C9F8D2.5030704@digiware.nl>

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On 08/11/15 06:29, Willem Jan Withagen wrote:
> On 11-8-2015 10:11, Jordan Hubbard wrote:
>>> I see a lot of hatred towards the less popular, "weird" arches.
>>> Having a variety of arches has a *lot* of value.
>> I’m sorry, but on top of the points above where I think you’re fairly
>> far off-base, you could not be more wrong here either.  Even NetBSD,
>> which has long had the motto of “of course it runs NetBSD!” (as if
>> the answer was so obvious as to be unworth the question), has been
>> retiring architectures left and right because there is no such thing
>> as “free” in software.  Everything has a cost in time, in complexity,
>> in maintenance headaches, etc.  You absolutely MUST weigh the
>> relative value of each and every platform (or HW device) you support
>> and be willing to ruthlessly cull the old and the weak or before
>> long, your software will be a collection of burdensome conditionals
>> and weird constructs that no one even understands the purpose of
>> anymore, but “they were necessary for something, at some point” so no
>> one dares remove them, either.
>>
>> Just ask the OpenSSL project how heavy the burden of history can be
>> (and look at how many lines of code LibreSSL has ripped out, often
>> with great glee) and then ask yourself again if your definition of
>> “value” is truly aligned with the converse reality we objectively
>> know to be true
> Well it starts with the fun job of writing compiler-backends where the
> code is generated... Let alone that the backend writes optimized
> machine-code.
> Newer CPUs allow for combinations of instructions never considered for
> which new algorithms must be designed to actual be able to use them
> efficiently.
>
> Then it gets to the OS and the platform itself, where ARM is a real nice
> example.. You can call it ARM, but just only the CPU has 4 modes, let
> alone that there are various versions with different instruction.
> sets. Then go the the VM and other system architecture variations and
> you understand why the development of FreeBSD on ARM still has lots of
> very tricky changes to accommodate for.
>
> Last but not least are the devices that come with new platforms. Sure
> they look a lot like the ones already done, especially if they are in
> the PCI family. But still fine details need to be tinkered to get
> devices to work (flawless).
>
> And then once you have mastered that all, try to retrofit something like
> ZFS....
>
> No, over the years I've always been happy that FreeBSD was deliberately
> careful in selecting their platforms. Because there is always NetBSD as
> close alternative.
>
> I install BSD stats on most of the boxed I operate, but obviously not
> many people do... And even less SPARC people do, so it seems.
>
> Goto http://www.bsdstats.org/bt/cpus.html to get a hang of where FreeBSD
> is running....
>
> Short version:
> Out of 11.000 submissions:
> (SUNW,UltraSPARC-IIe @ 500 MHz) 5
> Microsystems UltraSparc-IIe 	12
> Microsystems UltraSparc-IIIi 	2
> Microsystems UltraSparc-IIi 	1
>
> But no ARM at all, so that sort of make the numbers above fall in the
> range: lies, damn lies, statistics. :)
>
> --WjWX86,
> _______________________________________________
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>
As I was reading this,  I kept having flashbacks to doing cross system 
porting:
different compilers,  include files,  architectures,  etc. etc.

My congratulations to the FreeBSD/OpenBSD/WhateverLinuxThisWeek folks for
getting things to run on X86/AMD64/Some RISC/Hardware Development Board 
De Jour.

"It's not that the bear dances well, its amazing that the bear dances at 
all!"

-- 
Patrick Powell                 Astart Technologies
papowell@astart.com            1530 Jamacha Rd, Suite X
Network and System             San Diego, CA 92019
   Consulting                   858-874-6543 FAX 858-751-2435
Web: www.astart.com




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