From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 16 03:57:52 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAFBD16A421 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 03:57:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chuckr@chuckr.org) Received: from mail2.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail2.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BF4B13C457 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 03:57:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chuckr@chuckr.org) Received: (qmail 16416 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2007 03:57:33 -0000 Received: from april.chuckr.org (chuckr@[66.92.151.30]) (envelope-sender ) by mail2.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 16 Nov 2007 03:57:33 -0000 Message-ID: <473D14DC.4070104@chuckr.org> Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 22:56:12 -0500 From: Chuck Robey User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.8.1.9) Gecko/20071107 SeaMonkey/1.1.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Questions References: <20071112183502.438b44b8@gumby.homeunix.com.> <4738A71A.6060100@chuckr.org> <4738ACDD.50108@u.washington.edu> <4738ADC8.2060005@gmx.de> <4738AEBF.4010109@u.washington.edu> <4738C145.2050601@chuckr.org> <20071112214240.5d3b048a@gumby.homeunix.com.> <4738FC8B.5000309@chuckr.org> <20071114230723.GD70122@demeter.hydra> <473CAD52.6060309@chuckr.org> <20071115221638.GC76155@demeter.hydra> In-Reply-To: <20071115221638.GC76155@demeter.hydra> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Ports with GUI configs X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 03:57:52 -0000 Chad Perrin wrote: > On Thu, Nov 15, 2007 at 03:34:26PM -0500, Chuck Robey wrote: >> Chad Perrin wrote: >>> On Mon, Nov 12, 2007 at 08:23:23PM -0500, Chuck Robey wrote: >>>> This makes a little file of descriptor words, but it's not set so a >>>> regular editor can manipulate it; the special ports program is needed to >>>> set or reset this list. All ports query this list in making the >>>> decision as to whether or whether not to include a particular port as a >>>> dependency. >>> Ugh. As far as I'm concerned, everything that pertains to system >>> configuration should always be human-readable and editable without >>> special tools. Trying to insulate things from human ability to directly >>> manipulate them tends to lead to rapidly increasing difficulty of >>> debugging configurations. >> I might have agreed with this, except, I have lived for a good while >> with the Gentoo "USE" lists, and I can tell you that having insufficent >> control over what goes ontp those lists causes havoc both with the users >> trying to select the proper wording of the lists, and the programmers >> trying to decide how to have a particular USE keyword represent a >> particular ports usage. You have to make certain that both users and >> programmers have a definite, firm meaning in mind when they use the >> keywords, because (in another's well chosen words) if you don't, USE >> lists are a PITA. It takes firmer control of meaning to make certain >> that the list doesn't devolve into that. >> >> This is actual experience talking, in this case. > > I don't see how that translates into "the user should not be allowed to > view what's going on behind the scenes in a text editor if (s)he wants > to." > I think you're becoming confused about who said what, because that particular line (the last paragraph above) isn't anything that I wrote. Tell you what, let's just let this branch of the argument die, until I raise it again after I have the software ready to look at, on the ports list. We should not be bothering the "-questions" llist with this. At that point, I will prepare, in advance, use cases, all the documentation, and the actual code, and everyone will get their chance to rant and rave, alrighty? You can stop me cold, if enough folks don't like the idea, that's how the development of FreeBSD goes, and I wouldn't change a thing with that.