Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 17:04:35 -0400 (EDT) From: CyberPeasant <djv@bedford.net> To: kib@poboxes.com Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD on old equipment Message-ID: <199805022104.RAA07625@pollux.loco.net> In-Reply-To: <004101bd75d7$db2b2c20$023aa8c0@kib.kib.net> from Jason at "May 2, 98 10:37:36 am"
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> I have a rash of older equipment here and wanted to know how compatible
> 2.2.5 or 2.2.6 is with older hardware and how well it will run if at all. I
It'll run. Better than you think, too. 'BSD was /born/ on slower iron.
386+unix ~= 486+windoze, at least as far as 'feel' goes. The Unix file
systems perform much much better that the lousy FAT one. (less disc thrashing).
> have a rash of 386 boards with 2-16 megs of ram. Will FreeBSD be of any use
> for on these sort of machines? I already decided that the 286s won't work
> and need to hit the dump :)
Save their cases, powersupplies, and add-on cards. A case is a case is a
case.
> Also...how much HD space is required to run the OS. For instance I have
> several HDs under 100 megs. Can I use one of those HDs and setup a router
> with on it? How much ram is needed? How much HD? How much Memory/CPU is
> needed?
>
> I guess what I need to know is basic minimiums for FreeBSD. I would like to
> run a Router that can IP alias for several machines over a Ethernet Internet
> connection. Am I asking too much of this old hardware?
They can probably handle this without overstraining. If the machines can
be brought up without a lot of hassle or $, checking them out will be
a day's work at most.
> Thanks in advance
>
> Jason Cribbins
I just last night installed 2.2.6 on a 386SX: 9MB memory 40MB
harddrive. In this case, the /usr partition and the cdrom source
were both NFS mounted from another machine. The trick is to get
the /usr partition mounted. The normal install script doesn't seem
to provide an easy hook to do this. [HELP? ] So what I did was:
0) install as usual, manually partitioning the IDE drive to have
13 MB for swap and 27MB for /
1) did "minimal install", which is just the "bin" stuff.
2) allowed it to fail when the / disk filled.
3) Over on virtual console 4, which now has some working
utilities, rm -r /usr, then nfs mount the /usr partition from the
server.
4) Install is asking, at this point, "Try again?" Sure, try again.
This time it succeeds, of course.
5) After install is done (but before rebooting), return to vc 4,
and manually edit /etc/fstab to include the nfs mount of /usr.
6) Other config stuff, to your own taste.
7) reboot, expect success.
Experience with these 386[SD]X boards has led me to believe them
quite capable of the task you mention. I wouldn't bother trying
with less than 8MB of memory, although 4 is supposed to be the min.
Note: you may well need 8MB to install... but can cut back to 4
later when the box is in production on some dedicated task.
For a standalone system, (no nfs), I have shoehorned /NetBSD/ into
a 68MB disk, with some swap and spare. I recommend using nfs /usr
for installation, then manually paring it down later, and tar'ing
it into the standalone partition -- all this after installing and
reboot.
An alternative is to link /usr to /dev/null during the install, if
a pre-existing /usr will be nfs mounted later. I don't know if
sysinstall will choke on this or not, but if it doesn't, it would
be clever.
This is from the 386SX just mentioned:
[root@ishmael /root]# mount
/dev/wd0s1a on / (local)
procfs on /proc (local)
pollux:/usr on /usr (read-only) <-- full bore /usr from a server
pollux:/home on /home
pollux:/home/IshmaelUsr on /mnt <-- the usr created during install
[root@ishmael /root]# df -k
Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on
/dev/wd0s1a 27007 15337 9510 62% /
procfs 4 4 0 100% /proc
pollux:/usr 508655 217253 250710 46% /usr
pollux:/home 1012976 448366 483572 48% /home
pollux:/home/IshmaelUsr 1012976 448366 483572 48% /mnt
[root@ishmael /root]# cd /mnt
[root@ishmael /mnt]# du -k -s
35752 .
[root@ishmael /mnt]#
So it looks like I got away with 15M / + 36M /usr + 13M swap = 64MB
total disk usage. If you've got the spare mem, try to avoid swapping
on these old turkey disks, unless you're nostalgic. 16M is nice,
but I have had 386 mobos choke on 4MB simms.
The IshmaelUsr install partition is as it was after the installation,
I.e., no manual paring has been done, so it still contains static
libs, perl, /usr/share, /usr/include, all the timezones, and so
on.
Note, this drive is an IDE. If you have old MFM or ESDI drives,
then it gets more complicated: you will want to use the bad144
utility to reserve space for and mark bad blocks on the drive. This
can be omitted, only at your peril. The install floppy does have
bad144 on it, but I do not know if the sysinstall will stop at the
right point for you to run it. [Yet, hehheh. That 68MB disk with
NetBSD on it is MFM, and is scheduled to be installed with Freebsd
real soon now.] My advice on MFM drives is to use them only if you
are into antiques. I get a definite satisfaction hearing that old
Seagate 4096 clunk around running BSD, though. After a lifetime
of DOSing, the old gentleman deserves something dignified in his
declining years.
If you have some benchmark or whatever that you'd like to see on
the 386SX, (or a 386DX/33) contact me off-list.
I have run a 386DX/33 as an nfs server (/home partitions) for about
a year, over 10Base2 ethernet, and am satisfied with its performance.
As an X font server, though, it bogged down. Only one user, though,
so YMMV.
Pointer: old BIOS suck worse than new ones, so expect trouble with
large drives, dual booting, or other tricks. Stick with "whole disk
for BSD", and your problems will be smaller. Some old BIOS won't
boot without a keyboard or monitor. Put those ones in the dumpster,
unless you don't mind that restriction. Old Phoenix BIOS suck worst,
I think.
Pointer: disable any kind of cute shadowing rubbish in the BIOS;
386's almost always have some kludged DOS-accommodating trash turned
on, even the stupid "Expanded Memory (LIM EMS)" stuff. Go for a
vanilla BIOS setup. Enable A20 line.
Pointer: 386s really like cache memory (0K on the chip). Many old
mobos will take 256K of cache. Consider doing this later, if the
machine checks out otherwise.
Another use: old boxes make good things for kids. A kid will learn
more "about computers" in a month on a 386+Unix, than in a year
with a Windoze P5 nickelodeon. A friend's 12-year-old is almost
ready to be given root. They can surf da net with lynx, if they
have to.
Dave
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