From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 10 02:22:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA04713 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 02:22:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA04708 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 02:22:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id SAA05952; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 18:52:28 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19971010185227.17440@lemis.com> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 18:52:27 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: FreeBSD Chat Cc: dkelly@hiwaay.net Subject: Re: Re: Linux vs freeBSD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8250 Fax: +61-8-8388-8250 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Fight-Spam-Now: http://www.cauce.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk (forwarded to -chat) The background of this discussion is a comparison between FreeBSD and Linux that I wrote for "The Complete FreeBSD". Here goes; there's more from David Kelly after it. FreeBSD and Linux Linux is a clone of UNIX written by Linus Torvalds, a student in Helsinki, Finland. At the time, the BSD sources were not freely available, and so Linus wrote his own version of UNIX. Linux is a superb example of how a few dedicated, clever people can produce an operating system that is better than well-known commercial systems developed by a large number of trained software engineers. It is better even than a number of commercial UNIX systems. Obviously, I don't think Linux is as good as FreeBSD, or I wouldn't be writing this book, but the differences between FreeBSD and Linux are more a matter of philosophy rather than of concept. Here are a few contrasts: Table 1-1. Differences between FreeBSD and Linux FreeBSD is a direct descendent of the Linux is a clone and never contained any original UNIX, though it contains no AT&T code residual AT&T code. FreeBSD is a complete operating system, Linux is a kernel, personally maintained maintained by a central group of soft- by a Linus Torvalds. The non-kernel ware developers. There is only one programs supplied with Linux are part of distribution of FreeBSD. a distribution, of which there are sev- eral. FreeBSD aims to be a stable production Linux is still a ``bleeding edge'' de- environment. velopment environment, though many dis- tributions aim to make it more suitable for production use. As a result of the centralized develop- The ease of installation of Linux de- ment style, FreeBSD is straightforward pends on the ``distribution''. If you and easy to install. switch from one distribution of Linux to another, you'll have to learn a new set of installation tools. FreeBSD is still relatively unknown, Linux did not have any lawsuits to since its distribution was restricted contend with, so for a long time it was for a long time due to the AT&T law- the only free UNIX-type system avail- suits. able. As a result of the lack of knowledge of A growing amount of commercial software FreeBSD, not much commercial software is is becoming available for Linux. available for it. As a result of the smaller user base, Just about any new board will soon have FreeBSD is less likely to have drivers a driver for Linux. for brand-new boards than Linux. Because of the lack of commercial appli- Linux appears not to need to be able to cations and drivers, FreeBSD will run run FreeBSD programs or drivers. most Linux programs, whether commercial or not. It's also relatively simple to port Linux drivers to FreeBSD. FreeBSD has a large number of afficiona- Linux has a large number of afficionados dos who are prepared to flame anybody who are prepared to flame anybody who who dares suggest that it's not better dares suggest that it's not better than than Linux. FreeBSD. In summary, Linux is also a very good operating system. For many, it's better than FreeBSD. It's a pity that so many people on both sides are prepared to flame each other. There are signs that both sides are learning to appreciate each other, and a number of people are now running both systems. So much to that; I welcome comments or corrections. Now to David's message. Greg >>> Drivers: Drivers are available for most standard hardware, right? >> >> OK. How about: >> >> As a result of the smaller user base, FreeBSD is less likely to have >> drivers for brand-new boards than Linux. > > Do we have any examples laying around of FreeBSD wanting for drivers > that exist in Linux? Or are we simply repeating what's always been said? > > An example would be ATAPI CDROM's and FreeBSD. In the past FreeBSD's > ATAPI support was slack. The reason I gathered was that nobody who was > capable of the task wanted to do it. > > Today, I don't know what the status is of the wd driver. But I'd guess > that its not being carressed into DMA, UltraDMA, mode 4.... the way a > Linux driver would be. As with ATAPI, its just not as interesting to > FreeBSD developers as SCSI. > > Speaking of interesting, tape handling has become a hot topic at work. > Am having fun reading Seagate's DAT SCSI manual. Meanwhile have ported > FreeBSD's tcopy to SGI. Time to start some enhancements. I'd like to > see FreeBSD's mt reply more like SGI's. And I may do it soon. > > In the driver discussion, some mention of the sharing of drivers > between FreeBSD and Linux is needed. > >>> (Annelise Anderson, I think) >>> >>> Also the kind a variety of support--the nature of the community-- >>> involved in Linux vs. FreeBSD is different.... >> >> I suppose that's true, but it's difficult to quantify from my >> perspective. Do you have any suggestions? > > Thought this and that above the [snip] were related. I subscribe to > some lists which are dominated by Linux users. Linux distributions > are quite different from each other. Have noticed vendors such as > Netscape specify exactly which Linux distribution and kernel their > product is compatible with. > > Authors of software distributed in source have to deal with users who > can't compile on XXXX's distribution because... you name it. Location > and version of ncurses comes to mind. Yeah, I know, there is supposed > to be a Linux File System standard specifying where these files are > to be put. > > I don't think its too far fetched to observere that its almost as > difficult to step between Linux's as between any other Unix. > > I can't pinpoint it, but I was doing a lot of SGI Irix when I was > attempting to do useful things with Linux in 1994. Then in 1995 > I switched to FreeBSD and was much more comfortable. The difference > in init bugged me for a little while but I flit between Irix and > FreeBSD without blinking. Now I've got to deal with Solaris 2.5.1 > and I'm back in a quagmire where nothing is where I expect it.