From owner-cvs-all Thu Apr 4 10:16:14 2002 Delivered-To: cvs-all@freebsd.org Received: from tomts19-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts19.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5851037B442; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 10:15:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from khan.anarcat.dyndns.org ([65.94.191.9]) by tomts19-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020404181528.LRYE19941.tomts19-srv.bellnexxia.net@khan.anarcat.dyndns.org>; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 13:15:28 -0500 Received: from lenny.anarcat.dyndns.org (lenny.anarcat.dyndns.org [192.168.0.4]) by khan.anarcat.dyndns.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 246141AA7; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 13:15:25 -0500 (EST) Received: by lenny.anarcat.dyndns.org (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Thu, 4 Apr 2002 13:14:24 -0500 Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 13:14:23 -0500 From: The Anarcat To: Mikhail Teterin Cc: jhb@FreeBSD.org, imp@village.org, des@ofug.org, pst@pst.org, obrien@FreeBSD.org, cvs-committers@FreeBSD.org, cvs-all@FreeBSD.org, winter@jurai.net, jkh@winston.freebsd.org, rwatson@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/usr.sbin/sysinstall install.c installUpgrade Message-ID: <20020404181423.GB279@lenny.anarcat.dyndns.org> Mail-Followup-To: Mikhail Teterin , jhb@FreeBSD.org, imp@village.org, des@ofug.org, pst@pst.org, obrien@FreeBSD.org, cvs-committers@FreeBSD.org, cvs-all@FreeBSD.org, winter@jurai.net, jkh@winston.freebsd.org, rwatson@FreeBSD.org References: <200204041754.g34HsNnF005867@aldan.algebra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="BwCQnh7xodEAoBMC" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200204041754.g34HsNnF005867@aldan.algebra.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-cvs-all@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --BwCQnh7xodEAoBMC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [this should be taken to -libh or -arch] On Thu Apr 04, 2002 at 12:54:22PM -0500, Mikhail Teterin wrote: > On 4 Apr, John Baldwin wrote: > =20 > >> A package is, typicly, downloaded or found on a CD -- in both cases > >> the file can be seeked around. IMHO, in this case space should be > >> given priority in the eternal "time vs. space" argument. >=20 > > In the case of a fat package you wouldn't actually download the parts > > of the package you didn't need if you got the package via a bitstream > > that you could seek on. >=20 > Well, when installation is from a CD or other such media, your argument > is lost -- I already have the seekable file. So, it seems, the new > design is addressing installations over the network. No, it's not lost. A 200Mb package on a CD can take quite a while to read. If it's indexed, you can not only seek only the parts you need, but you also don't need to extract the package to a temporary location and copy it again to install it. Indexed packages might take up more space on a CD, but regardless of the network connection, it should speed up package installs a 2-fold at least. =20 > My trouble is, when anything goes wrong during an install, it is > restarted, which means redownloading (at least parts of) the package > file, does it not? To avoid that with the present packages I'd tend to > download them and then install them -- hence, I have the seekable file > anyway, and can redo the installations later on this machine or others > without redownloading. In other words, I'll have the seek-able file > anyway... I'm sure I understand what you mean by seekable. Some network connections (HTTP 1.1 and FTP, IIRC) are seekable, ie you can start downloading http files at any given location. The problem is with non-seekable (non-indexed would be the proper word) archives. For .tgz (or .tbz2), wether you have the seekable file or network connection doesn't matter since you must extract the whole file in the order to seek individual files in the archive. Repeat after me: there's no way to access a given individual file in a tar(1) archive without extracting the archive up to the given file. This is not the case of .zip. > What's left are the people, who like to install directly from the > network and don't mind redownloading in case of a failure. My > guesstimate is those are not big in number and mostly don't care for the > method chosen one way or the other... Choosing an index archive format doesn't mean you can't keep a local copy, and actually, right now, libh does keep a copy of the .zip locally, as a temporary, yes, but that is a simple toggle. =20 > >> And I suspect, those who disagree are simply blinded by their > >> blazingly fast connections and fat disks. :-) >=20 > > No, the fact is that we have thought about some of the problems the > > current scheme doesn't address and which you haven't apparently > > thought about how to address either. >=20 > Mmm, sounds familiar :( Can you explain, what those are, or point me to > the mail archive, where this was discussed? I can point you to the libh design document on /projects/libh.html. A. --BwCQnh7xodEAoBMC Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjysl/4ACgkQttcWHAnWiGft6QCfSzMQAk6EbWvcBbMWwbveEeLK PeYAnjCQYfUlITUg0rnGhsIZf/kVRPch =m7Xg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --BwCQnh7xodEAoBMC-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe cvs-all" in the body of the message