From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 4 9:29:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mailman.thenap.com (mailman.thenap.com [209.190.0.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C972B37B724 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2001 09:29:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drew.weaver@thenap.com) Received: by mailman.thenap.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 4 Apr 2001 12:43:03 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Drew J. Weaver" To: 'Chet Hosey' Cc: "'freebsd-isp@freebsd.org'" Subject: RE: RE: Chasing the kiddies (was: Named Keep crashing) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 12:43:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0BD26.50A2C3A8" Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0BD26.50A2C3A8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Actually its easier to keep updated software on your machine if you're using FreeBSD, through ports, all you do is cvsup your ports collection and go into the directory of the program you want to install and type make install and it downloads and installs it, doesnt really get much easier than that, but really, what is wrong with something being easy, and understandable, I find it somewhat refreshing that not everything is as complicated as sendmail =) -----Original Message----- From: Chet Hosey [mailto:chosey@nidhog.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 12:17 PM To: Drew J. Weaver Cc: 'freebsd-isp@freebsd.org' Subject: OT: RE: Chasing the kiddies (was: Named Keep crashing) From what I've seen, RH has GUI tools for a lot of things (Linuxconf, I think?). RH seems much simpler to run (as an end user) than FreeBSD. You can download RPMs for everything, including the kernel. I know RedHat users who've never touched gcc. Even using ports requires slightly more knowledge than "Using Netscape, download coolproggie.rpm, open an xterm, and run rpm -i coolproggie.rpm". Under Debian, upgrading Bind for the security fix is a matter of "apt-get update; apt-get install bind". Hell, upgrading *everything*, system libs, init, X, name-your-vi-clone, emacs, bind, lynx, etc., is just "apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade". The RedHat way of doing things allows one to avoid understanding. It seems that FreeBSD allows less ignorance. ________________________________________________________________________ Chet Hosey ________________________________________________________________________ On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Drew J. Weaver wrote: > Just an off topic note here, FreeBSD, BSDi/OS and RedHat are all of > equal "difficulty" to administer, I run all 3 and none of them make me > shiver in my boots. Not sure what point you're attempting to make here? > > --- quoth the raven, --- > > Everybody should start with a *nix running on a publicly accessable box. > (Note: Linux doesn't count here, except possibly really old versions of > Slackware. Damned RH makes things too easy. No X either - CLI, people!) > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Chet Hosey > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Bill Vermillion wrote: > > > On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 05:45:48PM +1000, Enno Davids thus spoke: > > > > > | > Is there any way to trace who is doing it? | > Running tcpdump > > > with certain filter settings to avoid logging everything and > > > filling the disk? > > > > > > > | Dont bother... Just install the fixed version of bind... > > > | Every kid with a script and an internet connection is probably > > > | doing this to you!!! > > > > > This response kind of bothers me. There was a time > > > when everytime I could sanely trace spammers I emailed > > > abuse@wherever.was.relevant to advise them. Similarly, when people > > > probed Apache I'd send off adivsory emails. > > > > If you find a way this works let me know. I've given up doing this > > because except for the most well known, I've received rejects from > > all mail addresses at the offending provider, root,abuse, > > postmaster, webmaster, etc. So I just gave up and put the in > > the REJECT list. > > > > Those days responsible people, and not quick buck artists, we're > > keeping the 'net running. > > > > > There was a time when if you probed the Apache on my machine it > > > winnuke'd you back. Moral issues aside, there _was_ a great deal > > > of satisfaction there... Needless to say, there's little mileage > > > in this now (damned M$ service packs!). :) > > > > I never was into 'revenge' or 'tit-for-tat'. > > > > Bill > > -- > > Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0BD26.50A2C3A8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: RE: Chasing the kiddies (was: Named Keep crashing)

        Actually = its easier to keep updated software on your machine if you're using = FreeBSD, through ports, all you do is cvsup your ports collection and = go into the directory of the program you want to install and type make = install and it downloads and installs it, doesnt really get much easier = than that, but really, what is wrong with something being easy, and = understandable, I find it somewhat refreshing that not everything is as = complicated as sendmail =3D)

-----Original Message-----
From: Chet Hosey [mailto:chosey@nidhog.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 12:17 PM
To: Drew J. Weaver
Cc: 'freebsd-isp@freebsd.org'
Subject: OT: RE: Chasing the kiddies (was: Named = Keep crashing)


From what I've seen, RH has GUI tools for a lot of = things (Linuxconf, I
think?). RH seems much simpler to run (as an end = user) than FreeBSD. You
can download RPMs for everything, including the = kernel. I know RedHat
users who've never touched gcc.

Even using ports requires slightly more knowledge = than "Using Netscape,
download coolproggie.rpm, open an xterm, and run rpm = -i coolproggie.rpm".

Under Debian, upgrading Bind for the security fix is = a matter of "apt-get
update; apt-get install bind". Hell, upgrading = *everything*, system libs,
init, X, name-your-vi-clone, emacs, bind, lynx, = etc., is just "apt-get
update; apt-get dist-upgrade".

The RedHat way of doing things allows one to avoid = understanding. It seems
that FreeBSD allows less ignorance.

_______________________________________________________________= _________

Chet Hosey
<chosey@nidhog.com>
_______________________________________________________________= _________

On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Drew J. Weaver wrote:

>       Just an off topic = note here, FreeBSD, BSDi/OS and RedHat are all of
> equal "difficulty" to administer, I = run all 3 and none of them make me
> shiver in my boots. Not sure what point you're = attempting to make here?
>
> --- quoth the raven, ---
>
> Everybody should start with a *nix running on a = publicly accessable box.
> (Note: Linux doesn't count here, except = possibly really old versions of
> Slackware. Damned RH makes things too easy. No = X either - CLI, people!)
>
> = ________________________________________________________________________=
>
> Chet Hosey
> <chosey@nidhog.com>
> = ________________________________________________________________________=
>
> On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Bill Vermillion = wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 05:45:48PM +1000, = Enno Davids thus spoke:
> >
> > > | > Is there any way to trace who = is doing it? | > Running tcpdump
> > > with certain filter settings to avoid = logging everything and
> > > filling the disk?
> >
> >
> > > | Dont bother... Just install the = fixed version of bind...
> > > | Every kid with a script and an = internet connection is probably
> > > | doing this to you!!!
> >
> > > This response kind of bothers me. = There was a time
> > > when everytime I could sanely trace = spammers I emailed
> > > abuse@wherever.was.relevant to advise = them. Similarly, when people
> > > probed Apache I'd send off adivsory = emails.
> >
> > If you find a way this works let me = know.  I've given up doing this
> > because except for the most well known, = I've received rejects from
> > all mail addresses at the offending = provider, root,abuse,
> > postmaster, webmaster, etc.  So I = just gave up and put the in
> > the REJECT list.
> >
> > Those days responsible people, and not = quick buck artists, we're
> > keeping the 'net running.
> >
> > > There was a time when if you probed = the Apache on my machine it
> > > winnuke'd you back. Moral issues = aside, there _was_ a great deal
> > > of satisfaction there... Needless to = say, there's little mileage
> > > in this now (damned M$ service = packs!). :)
> >
> > I never was into 'revenge' or = 'tit-for-tat'.
> >
> > Bill
> > --
> > Bill Vermillion -   bv @ wjv . = com
> >
> > To Unsubscribe: send mail to = majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> > with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" = in the body of the message
> >
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to = majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the = body of the message
>


To Unsubscribe: send mail to = majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body = of the message

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