From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 12 11:46:57 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D5A416A4CE; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 11:46:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [216.240.41.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B0B943D46; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 11:46:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) i0CJkrtV054273; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 11:46:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.12.9p2/8.12.9/Submit) id i0CJkqOE054272; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 11:46:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 11:46:52 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <200401121946.i0CJkqOE054272@apollo.backplane.com> To: "" References: <200401062000.i06K0hSI012184@dyson.jdyson.com> <200401072317.i07NHaM9065411@apollo.backplane.com> <3FFD01CE.5070301@energyhq.es.eu.org> <1073680797.3fff119d89733@webmail.iquest.net> cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: Munden Randall J cc: jsd@jdyson.com Subject: Re: Where is FreeBSD going? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 19:46:57 -0000 :> Agreed. Like I've said, the main problem I see is complexity. It :> wouldn't matter as much if there were 5-10 people with deep knowledge of :> SMPng, but with 1 or 2 hackers working on it, the chance that everything :> will be ever fixed is quite small. :> :IMO, the easiest way to start the SMP work (from a FreeBSD monolithic :approach), is to flatten as much of the VFS/VM code as possible into :a continuation scheme... That is something that I could have done 5yrs :ago in a few weeks, and then keep the networking system as it is. :There would be shims deployed that would still support the sleep/wakeup :scheme, so that the non-networking could and the new flat interface could :be debugged... (It is NOT a good idea to bug the networking guys until :the new scheme would be debugged.) : :At that point, there would be a code with explicit context carried around, :and no nesting or stack context. This would have a small benefit of avoiding :multiple deeply nested kernel stacks... : :Given the very flat scheme, each subsystem could be recoded into a :message passing or simple continuation scheme (whatever is appropriate.) :The system would be naturally able to be reworked -- without the :hidden dependencies of the stack. VFS/VM layering problems then :become resolvable. : :This is NOT a total solution, but should be the beginning of a thinking :exercise that seems to lead into the correct direction. (Don't :criticize this based upon the completeness of my prescription, but :on what can eventually be developed!!!) I have been trying to figure out how to implement asynch system calls in DFly, which is a very similar problem to the one posed by the VFS stack. I don't think we can use a pure continuation scheme, but I do think the required context can be minimized enough to fit in a structure. In DFly, the natural structure to hold the contextual information is the message structure that was used to initiate the operation in the first place. So, in regards to async system calls, the message structure contains an additional union that lays out contextual storage requirements for each system call. For example, the contextual information required to support nanosleep() would primarily be a timeout structure. (This is in fact the only system call that can be run asynch in DFly at the moment... I am using it as an experimental base to try to refine the code requirements to reduce complexity). The blocking points for both system calls and VFS calls (which are the real problem being solved here) tend to be related to blocking on I/O events, locks, and mutexes. In DFly I primarily have to worry about I/O events and locks and not so much about mutexes. Also, in DFly, We are serializing many major subsystems and segregating high performance structures, such as PCB's, by associating them with a single thread. This fits very well with the continuation scheme idea because we would prefer to have only a few threads which handle multiple data structures (to make best use of available cpus), and this means that we cannot simply 'block' in such threads whenever we feel like it without screwing up parallelism. -Matt Matthew Dillon :Oh well -- I cannot think too much about this stuff, or I'll actually :get emotionally involved again. I need to get a 'normal' job, not :working at home and need to interact with people instead of CRTs. :-). :(I give a sh*t about FreeBSD, and hope that WHATEVER problems that :truly exist are fully resolved.) There is alot of blood sweat and :tears in that codebase, and being involved in the project should be :done with great respect. : :John From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 12 13:04:31 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6F7E16A4CE; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:04:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from shell.webmaster.com (mail.webmaster.com [216.152.64.131]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EC8143D6E; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:03:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from davids@webmaster.com) Received: from however ([206.171.168.138]) by shell.webmaster.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with SMTP id com; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:03:45 -0800 From: "David Schwartz" To: "Gary W. Swearingen" , "M. Warner Losh" Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:03:43 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <35u1357fbm.135@mail.comcast.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2055 Importance: Normal cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Where is FreeBSD going? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:04:32 -0000 > Well, I know that it's legal to omit one's own copyright claim, but > for some organization to lay claim to copyrights owned by you or me > seems very wrong. It's a violation of BSD-type licenses and a > violation of the concept of attribution that is behind the licenses. > A legal entity has made the false claim of copyright ownership, > whether that's an informal organization or the person who wrote the > claim with a pseudonym. I'm not sure how you or I have been damaged, > but I supose that a lawyer could find a way. Anyone who can legally created derived or aggregated works from a work to which you hold copyright may place their own copyright on those derived or aggregated works. This in no way affects your original copyright. DS From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 12 13:44:31 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6D3516A4CE; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:44:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 322E143D3F; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:43:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from interjet.elischer.org ([24.7.73.28]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with ESMTP id <20040112214348012006m0rce>; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:43:49 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA86752; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:43:47 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:43:46 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Matthew Dillon In-Reply-To: <200401121946.i0CJkqOE054272@apollo.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: Munden Randall J cc: jsd@jdyson.com Subject: Re: Where is FreeBSD going? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:44:31 -0000 On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, Matthew Dillon wrote: > > :> Agreed. Like I've said, the main problem I see is complexity. It > :> wouldn't matter as much if there were 5-10 people with deep knowledge of > :> SMPng, but with 1 or 2 hackers working on it, the chance that everything > :> will be ever fixed is quite small. > :> > :IMO, the easiest way to start the SMP work (from a FreeBSD monolithic > :approach), is to flatten as much of the VFS/VM code as possible into > :a continuation scheme... That is something that I could have done 5yrs > :ago in a few weeks, and then keep the networking system as it is. > :There would be shims deployed that would still support the sleep/wakeup > :scheme, so that the non-networking could and the new flat interface could > :be debugged... (It is NOT a good idea to bug the networking guys until > :the new scheme would be debugged.) > : > :At that point, there would be a code with explicit context carried around, > :and no nesting or stack context. This would have a small benefit of avoiding > :multiple deeply nested kernel stacks... > : > :Given the very flat scheme, each subsystem could be recoded into a > :message passing or simple continuation scheme (whatever is appropriate.) > :The system would be naturally able to be reworked -- without the > :hidden dependencies of the stack. VFS/VM layering problems then > :become resolvable. > : > :This is NOT a total solution, but should be the beginning of a thinking > :exercise that seems to lead into the correct direction. (Don't > :criticize this based upon the completeness of my prescription, but > :on what can eventually be developed!!!) > > I have been trying to figure out how to implement asynch system > calls in DFly, which is a very similar problem to the one posed by > the VFS stack. I know that Matt knows all this but.. The thing about async syscalls is that by definition, the context needs to be split.. Something goes back to the caller and something stays behind to compete the operation. The 2nd "something" can be a saved message, or a full saved context. Dfly would use the first methond and FreeBSD uses the 2nd method. (KSE threads are based upon asyncronous system calls). In case 2 you need a way for the program to cope with the fact that syscalls return without having done what they were asked to do.. this is what the kse threading library and API do. > > I don't think we can use a pure continuation scheme, but I do > think the required context can be minimized enough to fit in > a structure. In DFly, the natural structure to hold the > contextual information is the message structure that was used > to initiate the operation in the first place. In order to make the state minimal, you need to know what state is important to keep in every situation. In FreeBSD there is not enough knowledge about this so we keep the entire thread state. If the requests were encapsulated in messages then that would help, but you still need to keep other state available.. for example, if you sleep while doing the 3rd part (out of 4) of a large read (that the kernel has broken up due to allocation discontinuities on the disk for example) then you still need to keep track of that and the original message probabyl doesn't have the storeage context for that. > > So, in regards to async system calls, the message structure > contains an additional union that lays out contextual storage > requirements for each system call. yes but you have to design your system for that from scratch.. (Dfly is doing it with a retroactive "scratch" :-) > > For example, the contextual information required to > support nanosleep() would primarily be a timeout structure. > (This is in fact the only system call that can be run asynch > in DFly at the moment... I am using it as an experimental > base to try to refine the code requirements to reduce > complexity). > > The blocking points for both system calls and VFS calls (which > are the real problem being solved here) tend to be related to > blocking on I/O events, locks, and mutexes. In DFly I > primarily have to worry about I/O events and locks and not so > much about mutexes. Also, in DFly, We are serializing many major > subsystems and segregating high performance structures, such as PCB's, > by associating them with a single thread. This fits very well > with the continuation scheme idea because we would prefer to > have only a few threads which handle multiple data structures > (to make best use of available cpus), and this means that we cannot > simply 'block' in such threads whenever we feel like it without > screwing up parallelism. right.. It depends if yuo thin that doing all that work is worth it.. If you are happy to save the running context and return another that doesn't hold any locks etc. then you can make the existing code work. But it has costs of course. > > -Matt > Matthew Dillon > > > :Oh well -- I cannot think too much about this stuff, or I'll actually > :get emotionally involved again. I need to get a 'normal' job, not > :working at home and need to interact with people instead of CRTs. :-). > :(I give a sh*t about FreeBSD, and hope that WHATEVER problems that > :truly exist are fully resolved.) There is alot of blood sweat and > :tears in that codebase, and being involved in the project should be > :done with great respect. > : > :John > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 12 13:47:52 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 939FB16A4CE for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:47:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns1.tiadon.com (SMTP.tiadon.com [69.27.132.161]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C77343D70 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:47:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from daleco.biz ([69.27.131.0]) by ns1.tiadon.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:51:06 -0600 Message-ID: <400315A7.5070403@daleco.biz> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:46:15 -0600 From: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031124 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Jan 2004 21:51:06.0734 (UTC) FILETIME=[2E8440E0:01C3D956] Subject: A sigh of relief, or whatever... X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:47:52 -0000 To committers@, releng@, etc. and etc.... Thanks for all the hard work on the new 5.2, and a refreshing $TEMPERATURE virtual $BEVERAGE to each of you; exactly what, of course, depending on your environment variables .... :-) Kevin Kinsey DaleCo, S.P. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 13 05:49:01 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1217416A4CE; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 05:49:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from out003.verizon.net (out003pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.103]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1619E43D2F; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 05:48:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from george@sddi.net) Received: from defbox ([141.155.151.85]) by out003.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040113134857.HZAX20713.out003.verizon.net@defbox>; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 07:48:57 -0600 From: "G. Rosamond" To: , Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 08:48:29 -0500 Organization: Secure Design & Development, Inc. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out003.verizon.net from [141.155.151.85] at Tue, 13 Jan 2004 07:48:56 -0600 Subject: NYC BSD User Group being launched X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: george@sddi.net List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:49:01 -0000 We have initiated a BSD user group in New York City called NYCBUG (pronounced "nice-bug"). There are two goals for this new user group: First, to provide a forum for the many BSD users in New York City to discuss and debate topics of interest to the BSD community. Second, to provide a bridge to users interested in learning more about or expanding their knowledge of the BSD family. Our kick-off event will be a free "birds-of-a-feather" session at LinuxWorld Expo at the Jacob Javits Center on January 22nd at 5:45pm, Room 1E15. We will have a presence at various tables at the expo, including those of BSDMall and New York PHP. Our first presentation, "Secure by Default: Learning from OpenBSD," will be held on Wednesday, February 4th at 7:00pm in the offices of SageSecure, 116 West 23rd Street and 6th Avenue on the fifth floor. To be given by Wes Sonnenreich, author of "Building Linux and OpenBSD Firewalls" and "Network Security Illustrated," this talk will deal with crucial security concepts and best practices for today's computing environments. Subsequent meetings will take place at 7:00pm on the first Wednesday of the month. Our website is located at www.nycbug.org. The site will include a joint documentation project with New York PHP and OpenlySecure.org, focused on providing original documentation to new and experienced BSD users alike. NYCBUG also provides community mailing lists to assist in discussion and learning about the BSD world. Interested users join the mailing list at http://www.nycbug.org/mailinglist.html. NYCBUG is open to all interested individuals, including, but not limited to, users of FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, DragonFlyBSD, OpenDarwin, Darwin and Mac OSX. Since the origins of Berkeley Software Distribution (BSD) UNIX in the 1970's, BSD has been a consistent force among the backroom servers of the world, powering internet service providers, hosting firms, and web sites such as Yahoo! and 2600.com. NYCBUG works to assist current users, those interested in learning more about this fundamental operating system family and various other BSD projects, and to provide a channel for community interaction. We look forward to supporting the BSD community in a variety of ways in the coming months and years. Please join us in making NYCBUG a success. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 13 10:05:10 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6E9016A4CE for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:05:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from sun.mmic.net (sun.mmic.net [199.166.219.7]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 01D3E43D53 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:05:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from subscribe@avhumor.com) Received: (qmail 14194 invoked by uid 499); 13 Jan 2004 18:05:07 -0000 Received: from mercury.mmic.net (HELO mercury.mmic.net) (199.166.219.10) by sun.mmic.net (qpsmtpd/0.27-dev.mustang.2) with ESMTP; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:05:03 -0500 Received: from mail pickup service by mercury.mmic.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:05:01 -0500 From: To: Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:05:01 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Jan 2004 18:05:01.0391 (UTC) FILETIME=[C35AEDF0:01C3D9FF] X-Spam-Check-By: sun.mmic.net X-Spam-Score: -0.9 X-Virus-Check-By: sun.mmic.net Subject: Subscription X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:05:10 -0000 You have just filled out a form to subscribe to the funniest adult humor magazine around, AVHumor. 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AOL Users Click Here From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 13 10:15:38 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4C5316A4CE for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:15:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from sun.mmic.net (sun.mmic.net [199.166.219.7]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8FC4C43D5F for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:15:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from subscribe@AVHumor.com) Received: (qmail 25690 invoked by uid 499); 13 Jan 2004 18:15:36 -0000 Received: from mercury.mmic.net (HELO mercury.mmic.net) (199.166.219.10) by sun.mmic.net (qpsmtpd/0.27-dev.mustang.2) with ESMTP; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:15:31 -0500 Received: from mail pickup service by mercury.mmic.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:14:58 -0500 From: To: Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:14:58 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Jan 2004 18:14:58.0418 (UTC) FILETIME=[27360520:01C3DA01] X-Spam-Check-By: sun.mmic.net X-Spam-Score: -2.2 X-Virus-Check-By: sun.mmic.net Subject: Thank you Joseph X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:15:38 -0000 We at AVHumor would like to take a moment to thank you for recommending us to your friends. 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If so come on back, http://www.avhumor.com/newav/enroll.asp?conf=5IIFGBCC From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 13 10:32:39 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9081816A4CE for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:32:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from SiteExperts.com (www.siteexperts.com [216.145.9.26]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE9AC43D5E for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:32:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from newsletter@SiteExperts.com) Received: from mail pickup service by SiteExperts.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:41:06 -0800 From: "SiteExperts.com Newsletter" To: Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:41:06 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Jan 2004 18:41:06.0953 (UTC) FILETIME=[CE217790:01C3DA04] Subject: SiteExperts.com Subscription X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:32:39 -0000 This confirms your subscription to the follwoing SiteExperts.com newsletters: Weekly plaintext-formatted Update Daily plaintext-formatted Log To remove or update your subscription please visit the subscriber update page at http://www.SiteExperts.com/newsletters/update.asp. Thank you, www.SiteExperts.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 13 10:37:50 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0210D16A4CE for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:37:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from lawguru.com (64-23-3-18.ptr.skynetweb.com [64.23.3.18]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CE0C543D2F for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:37:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anonymous@lawguru.com) Received: (qmail 7592 invoked by uid 10005); 13 Jan 2004 18:37:33 -0000 Date: 13 Jan 2004 18:37:33 -0000 Message-ID: <20040113183733.7591.qmail@lawguru.com> From: "LawGuru.com" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Thanks for visiting us X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:37:50 -0000 Hello - I just wanted to thank you for visiting LawGuru.com and for subscribing to our free newsletter. 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For more information please check out: From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 13 10:37:52 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E70716A4F3 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:37:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from umbrella.listbox.com (umbrella.listbox.com [207.8.214.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6886F43D64 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:37:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from listbox+sendmessage@umbrella.listbox.com) Received: by umbrella.listbox.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 04E58168D78; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:37:50 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.411 (Entity 5.404) From: Subscription Confirmation To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20040113133749.232751@umbrella> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:37:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: confirm subscribe to writing-world X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:37:52 -0000 Hi! You have asked to subscribe to the mailing list writing-world@v2.listbox.com. If this is what you want, just reply to this message or click on the link below, and you will be subscribed to the list. http://v2.listbox.com/subscribe/?confirm=232751-89055f Dear Subscriber, Thank you for subscribing to "Writing World," a free biweekly newsletter for writers. If you are using an e-mail service such as Yahoo, Hotmail, or MSN, you may need to add the return address of this newsletter to your address book. Please use the return address that is found on this e-mail. To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank e-mail to listbox+unsubscribe+394@v2.listbox.com or go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/unsubscribe/. To change your e-mail address, you can also visit http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=writing-world@v2.listbox.com If you have any difficulty changing your address or unsubscribing, please contact moirakallen@writing-world.com. Back issues of the newsletter are archived at http://www.writing-world.com/newsletter/index.shtml If you have any questions about this newsletter or Writing-World.com, please contact Moira Allen at moirakallen@writing-world.com Sincerely, Moira Allen, Editor Writing-World.com http://www.writing-world.com If you do not want to subscribe, just delete this message. Cheers The Listbox Robot ----- System Settings Below. Please do not edit. signup request: web from 80.58.3.174 SYSID: 232751-89055f From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 13 10:43:11 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BAAA16A4CE for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:43:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from umbrella.listbox.com (umbrella.listbox.com [207.8.214.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C232D43D6E for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:43:10 -0800 (PST) listbox+trampoline+394+893705+a7c46494@umbrella.listbox.com) Received: by umbrella.listbox.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 210E6168D78; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:43:10 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.411 (Entity 5.404) From: writing-world-request@v2.listbox.com To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <20040113133749.232751@umbrella> Message-Id: <20040113184310.210E6168D78@umbrella.listbox.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:43:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: welcome to writing-world X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:43:11 -0000 You have been subscribed to writing-world@v2.listbox.com with the address freebsd-chat@freebsd.org ---------------------------- List Instructions: ---------------------------- To Unsubscribe (leave the list): send a message to listbox+unsubscribe+394+893705+a7c46494@v2.listbox.com To change your subscription settings, click below: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?email=freebsd-chat@freebsd.org&listname=writing-world@v2.listbox.com At that page, you can do things like: 1) switch to digest mode 2) temporarily suspend list messages 3) update your subscribed email address. If you have any questions about the newsletter, please contact moira@writing-world.com. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 13 10:45:47 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2F1E16A4CE for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:45:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from galadriel.bravenet.com (galadriel.bravenet.com [65.39.176.22]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 332E843D55 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:45:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from generalmail@bravenet.com) Received: from bidoc.vc.bravenet.com (bidoc.vc.bravenet.com [172.16.0.80]) by galadriel.bravenet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6348188EAF for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:45:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by bidoc.vc.bravenet.com (Postfix, from userid 500) id B351B188E90; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:45:54 -0800 (PST) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: rhickok1109@earthlink.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from [80.58.3.174] by bravenet.com with HTTP; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:45:54 -0800 X-IPAddy: 80.58.3.174 X-Usernum: 4021315440 X-BNService: elist Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20040113184554.B351B188E90@bidoc.vc.bravenet.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:45:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: Confirm your subscription X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:45:47 -0000 I've moved the mailing list to a new provider, in the hope that it will work better. I know that you've probably missed one or more, maybe all, of the updates I've sent in the past. I hope that you'll receive them all from this new provider. http://pub47.bravenet.com/elist/add.php?usernum=4021315440&action=confirm&id=4605597 Win a Laptop Computer! Enter now! http://linktrack.bravenet.com/o.php?id=9652 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 13 10:47:41 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01C2216A4CF for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:47:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailsrv.fph.co.uk (mailsrv.fph.co.uk [212.113.202.17]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4220343D68 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:47:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from emarketing@futurenet.co.uk) Received: (qmail 1112 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2004 18:51:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailsrv2.fph.co.uk) (192.168.100.11) by 192.168.100.17 with SMTP; 13 Jan 2004 18:51:12 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by mailsrv2.fph.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:47:11 +0000 From: To: Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:47:11 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Jan 2004 18:47:11.0789 (UTC) FILETIME=[A79705D0:01C3DA05] Subject: Subscription Request for Technology and Telecoms X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:47:41 -0000 Dear Joseph, You have received this message because your email address has been added to a Future Publishing mailing list hosted at http://www.futurenewsletters.com. As a responsible company, Future Publishing wishes to ensure that you are not sent unsolicited email ('junk mail'). If you did not subscribe to this service and do not wish to receive email newsletters from us, you do not need to do anything, as no mail will be sent to you until you log in and activate your subscription(s). If you take no further action, your subscriptions and details will automatically be deleted after 28 days. Alternatively, you may remove or change your details now by logging in to your account at http://www.futurenewsletters.com. If you did ask to subscribe, then thank you for your request to subscribe to the Technology and Telecoms interest mailing list. This service requires you to activate your subscription before you can receive mailings. Please go to http://www.futurenewsletters.com , log in using your e-mail address and password sent to you when you first subscribed, then click on the 'Activate' button. Further instructions will be presented and you will be able to activate or delete your subscription as appropriate. If you have forgotten your password, please go to the login page on http://www.futurenewsletters.com and follow the instructions underneath the 'Lost password?' section. Thank you. http://www.futurenewsletters.com Future Publishing Privacy Policy : http://www.futurenet.com/futureonline/privacy.asp Future Publishing Terms and Conditions : http://www.futurenet.com/futureonline/termsandconditions.asp From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 13 10:47:41 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A87E16A4CE for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:47:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailsrv.fph.co.uk (mailsrv.fph.co.uk [212.113.202.17]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 20DED43D67 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:47:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from emarketing@futurenet.co.uk) Received: (qmail 1110 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2004 18:51:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailsrv2.fph.co.uk) (192.168.100.11) by 192.168.100.17 with SMTP; 13 Jan 2004 18:51:12 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by mailsrv2.fph.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:47:11 +0000 From: To: Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:47:11 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Jan 2004 18:47:11.0414 (UTC) FILETIME=[A75DCD60:01C3DA05] Subject: Subscription Request for Business Computing X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:47:41 -0000 Dear Joseph, You have received this message because your email address has been added to a Future Publishing mailing list hosted at http://www.futurenewsletters.com. As a responsible company, Future Publishing wishes to ensure that you are not sent unsolicited email ('junk mail'). If you did not subscribe to this service and do not wish to receive email newsletters from us, you do not need to do anything, as no mail will be sent to you until you log in and activate your subscription(s). If you take no further action, your subscriptions and details will automatically be deleted after 28 days. Alternatively, you may remove or change your details now by logging in to your account at http://www.futurenewsletters.com. If you did ask to subscribe, then thank you for your request to subscribe to the Business Computing interest mailing list. This service requires you to activate your subscription before you can receive mailings. Please go to http://www.futurenewsletters.com , log in using your e-mail address and password sent to you when you first subscribed, then click on the 'Activate' button. Further instructions will be presented and you will be able to activate or delete your subscription as appropriate. If you have forgotten your password, please go to the login page on http://www.futurenewsletters.com and follow the instructions underneath the 'Lost password?' section. Thank you. http://www.futurenewsletters.com Future Publishing Privacy Policy : http://www.futurenet.com/futureonline/privacy.asp Future Publishing Terms and Conditions : http://www.futurenet.com/futureonline/termsandconditions.asp From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 13 10:47:40 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9A3916A4CE for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:47:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailsrv.fph.co.uk (mailsrv.fph.co.uk [212.113.202.17]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 73A6443D6A for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:47:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from emarketing@futurenet.co.uk) Received: (qmail 1116 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2004 18:51:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailsrv2.fph.co.uk) (192.168.100.11) by 192.168.100.17 with SMTP; 13 Jan 2004 18:51:12 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by mailsrv2.fph.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:47:12 +0000 From: To: Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:47:12 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Jan 2004 18:47:12.0523 (UTC) FILETIME=[A80705B0:01C3DA05] Subject: Subscription Request for OTHER COMPANIES X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:47:41 -0000 X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:47:41 -0000 X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:47:41 -0000 Dear Joseph, You have received this message because your email address has been added to a Future Publishing mailing list hosted at http://www.futurenewsletters.com. As a responsible company, Future Publishing wishes to ensure that you are not sent unsolicited email ('junk mail'). If you did not subscribe to this service and do not wish to receive email newsletters from us, you do not need to do anything, as no mail will be sent to you until you log in and activate your subscription(s). If you take no further action, your subscriptions and details will automatically be deleted after 28 days. Alternatively, you may remove or change your details now by logging in to your account at http://www.futurenewsletters.com. If you did ask to subscribe, then thank you for your request to subscribe to the OTHER COMPANIES interest mailing list. This service requires you to activate your subscription before you can receive mailings. Please go to http://www.futurenewsletters.com , log in using your e-mail address and password sent to you when you first subscribed, then click on the 'Activate' button. Further instructions will be presented and you will be able to activate or delete your subscription as appropriate. If you have forgotten your password, please go to the login page on http://www.futurenewsletters.com and follow the instructions underneath the 'Lost password?' section. Thank you. http://www.futurenewsletters.com Future Publishing Privacy Policy : http://www.futurenet.com/futureonline/privacy.asp Future Publishing Terms and Conditions : http://www.futurenet.com/futureonline/termsandconditions.asp From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 13 10:47:41 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FFA316A4CF for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:47:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailsrv.fph.co.uk (mailsrv.fph.co.uk [212.113.202.17]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6169343D69 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:47:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from emarketing@futurenet.co.uk) Received: (qmail 1114 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2004 18:51:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailsrv2.fph.co.uk) (192.168.100.11) by 192.168.100.17 with SMTP; 13 Jan 2004 18:51:12 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by mailsrv2.fph.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:47:12 +0000 From: To: Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:47:11 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Jan 2004 18:47:12.0180 (UTC) FILETIME=[A7D2AF40:01C3DA05] Subject: Subscription Request for Travel and Holiday X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:47:41 -0000 Dear Joseph, You have received this message because your email address has been added to a Future Publishing mailing list hosted at http://www.futurenewsletters.com. As a responsible company, Future Publishing wishes to ensure that you are not sent unsolicited email ('junk mail'). If you did not subscribe to this service and do not wish to receive email newsletters from us, you do not need to do anything, as no mail will be sent to you until you log in and activate your subscription(s). If you take no further action, your subscriptions and details will automatically be deleted after 28 days. Alternatively, you may remove or change your details now by logging in to your account at http://www.futurenewsletters.com. If you did ask to subscribe, then thank you for your request to subscribe to the Travel and Holiday interest mailing list. This service requires you to activate your subscription before you can receive mailings. Please go to http://www.futurenewsletters.com , log in using your e-mail address and password sent to you when you first subscribed, then click on the 'Activate' button. Further instructions will be presented and you will be able to activate or delete your subscription as appropriate. If you have forgotten your password, please go to the login page on http://www.futurenewsletters.com and follow the instructions underneath the 'Lost password?' section. Thank you. http://www.futurenewsletters.com Future Publishing Privacy Policy : http://www.futurenet.com/futureonline/privacy.asp Future Publishing Terms and Conditions : http://www.futurenet.com/futureonline/termsandconditions.asp From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 13 10:47:41 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56ED216A4CE for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:47:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailsrv.fph.co.uk (mailsrv.fph.co.uk [212.113.202.17]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0352043D66 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:47:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from emarketing@futurenet.co.uk) Received: (qmail 1108 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2004 18:51:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailsrv2.fph.co.uk) (192.168.100.11) by 192.168.100.17 with SMTP; 13 Jan 2004 18:51:12 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by mailsrv2.fph.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:47:11 +0000 From: To: Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:47:10 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Jan 2004 18:47:11.0070 (UTC) FILETIME=[A7294FE0:01C3DA05] Subject: Subscription Request for Home Computing X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:47:41 -0000 Dear Joseph, You have received this message because your email address has been added to a Future Publishing mailing list hosted at http://www.futurenewsletters.com. As a responsible company, Future Publishing wishes to ensure that you are not sent unsolicited email ('junk mail'). If you did not subscribe to this service and do not wish to receive email newsletters from us, you do not need to do anything, as no mail will be sent to you until you log in and activate your subscription(s). If you take no further action, your subscriptions and details will automatically be deleted after 28 days. Alternatively, you may remove or change your details now by logging in to your account at http://www.futurenewsletters.com. If you did ask to subscribe, then thank you for your request to subscribe to the Home Computing interest mailing list. This service requires you to activate your subscription before you can receive mailings. Please go to http://www.futurenewsletters.com , log in using your e-mail address and password sent to you when you first subscribed, then click on the 'Activate' button. Further instructions will be presented and you will be able to activate or delete your subscription as appropriate. If you have forgotten your password, please go to the login page on http://www.futurenewsletters.com and follow the instructions underneath the 'Lost password?' section. Thank you. http://www.futurenewsletters.com Future Publishing Privacy Policy : http://www.futurenet.com/futureonline/privacy.asp Future Publishing Terms and Conditions : http://www.futurenet.com/futureonline/termsandconditions.asp From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 13 10:47:41 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D5DA16A4D0 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:47:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailsrv.fph.co.uk (mailsrv.fph.co.uk [212.113.202.17]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D75CD43D64 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:47:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from emarketing@futurenet.co.uk) Received: (qmail 1106 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2004 18:51:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailsrv2.fph.co.uk) (192.168.100.11) by 192.168.100.17 with SMTP; 13 Jan 2004 18:51:11 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by mailsrv2.fph.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:47:10 +0000 From: To: Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:47:10 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Jan 2004 18:47:10.0680 (UTC) FILETIME=[A6EDCD80:01C3DA05] Subject: Subscription Request for Gambling X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:47:41 -0000 Dear Joseph, You have received this message because your email address has been added to a Future Publishing mailing list hosted at http://www.futurenewsletters.com. As a responsible company, Future Publishing wishes to ensure that you are not sent unsolicited email ('junk mail'). If you did not subscribe to this service and do not wish to receive email newsletters from us, you do not need to do anything, as no mail will be sent to you until you log in and activate your subscription(s). If you take no further action, your subscriptions and details will automatically be deleted after 28 days. Alternatively, you may remove or change your details now by logging in to your account at http://www.futurenewsletters.com. If you did ask to subscribe, then thank you for your request to subscribe to the Gambling interest mailing list. This service requires you to activate your subscription before you can receive mailings. Please go to http://www.futurenewsletters.com , log in using your e-mail address and password sent to you when you first subscribed, then click on the 'Activate' button. 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Thank you. http://www.futurenewsletters.com Future Publishing Privacy Policy : http://www.futurenet.com/futureonline/privacy.asp Future Publishing Terms and Conditions : http://www.futurenet.com/futureonline/termsandconditions.asp From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 13 10:53:57 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DC9116A4CE for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:53:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from galadriel.bravenet.com (galadriel.bravenet.com [65.39.176.22]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4EEE43D49 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:53:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from generalmail@bravenet.com) Received: from suppi.vc.bravenet.com (suppi.vc.bravenet.com [172.16.0.83]) by galadriel.bravenet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C634188F1E for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:54:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by suppi.vc.bravenet.com (Postfix, from userid 500) id 98A26188E8E; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:54:05 -0800 (PST) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: rhickok1109@earthlink.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from [80.58.3.174] by bravenet.com with HTTP; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:54:05 -0800 X-IPAddy: 80.58.3.174 X-Usernum: 4021315440 X-BNService: elist Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20040113185405.98A26188E8E@suppi.vc.bravenet.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:54:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: Welcome to the HickokSports.com Mailing List X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:53:57 -0000 You have successfully been added to the mailing list at: http://www.hickoksports.com/ Thank you for joining the list. Win a *New* FlatScreen TV! http://linktrack.bravenet.com/o.php?id=9401 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 13 10:57:08 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F18816A4CE for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:57:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from r0.zabco.net (r0.zabco.net [207.176.130.70]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0979143D39 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:57:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from webmaster@sql-server-performance.com) Received: from sql-server-performance.com (ns52.zabco.net [207.176.137.12]) by r0.zabco.net (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id i0DIv4S61564 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:57:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from webmaster@sql-server-performance.com) Message-ID: <166970-220041213184217984@sql-server-performance.com> X-EM-Version: 6, 0, 1, 0 X-EM-Registration: #00B06306109813000D50 From: "webmaster@sql-server-performance.com" To: "Joseph Mallett" Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:42:17 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: SQL-Server-Performance.Com Confirmation X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:57:08 -0000 To complete your registration to receive your free subscription to the SQL-Server-Performance.Com newsletter, you must confirm your email address by clicking the link below. 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If you haven't yet done so, visit http://www.sql-server-performance.com for the latest tips and articles. http://newspro.alentus.com/members.asp?S=29&Task=CIN&ID1=2406&ID2=2311583 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 14 07:51:21 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3BBB16A4CE for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 07:51:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E7EF43D2F for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 07:51:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fledge.watson.org (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0EFlqUd047229; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:47:53 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from localhost (robert@localhost)i0EFllhK047226; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:47:52 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:47:47 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Michael Doyle In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org cc: Mathew Kanner Subject: Re: beastie boot menu, 4th (forth) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:51:21 -0000 On Sat, 10 Jan 2004, Michael Doyle wrote: > On 10 Jan 2004, at 19:32, Mathew Kanner wrote: > > > > This book has had the most profound effect on me of any > > programming document I've ever read (well, other than the turbo pascal > > 4 manuals). > > I don't know if it's showing my age or what, but I also have VERY fond > memories of the Turbo Pascal 4 manuals. It was also the first > IDE/compiler suite I ever owned, back when a PC running DOS 3.x was > state of the art (and my school friends had BBC Micros or similar) I also have very fond memories of Turbo Pascal 4 -- it was the last version of the TP IDE that I used that liked running on my 8088, and was blindingly fast. In retrospect, doesn't it seem amazing that you could not only fit the full programming language, ide, linker, and tools on the 360k floppy disk, but also several programs and compiled output? And my recollection is that all the applications I used had much better error handling for "out of disk space", since it came up so much. Modern applications seem to assume infinite space on the disk, and have a nasty tendancy to lose data when meeting with an unexpected error on an operation after open(). I've noticed this in xchat, the KDE sticky notes, and many others. Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Projects robert@fledge.watson.org Senior Research Scientist, McAfee Research From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 14 18:13:54 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16A3216A4CE for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:13:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta3.primary.ddc.dartmail.net (mta3.primary.ddc.dartmail.net [146.82.220.236]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 840F743D6E for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:13:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from MusiciansFriend@info.musiciansfriend.com) X-MID: Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 21:13:45 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: From: Musician's Friend To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: Musician's Friend Newsletter - January 14, 2004 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 02:13:54 -0000 If you are unable to view this newsletter please click this link to view our online version: http://info.musiciansfriend.com/cgi-bin24/DM/y/mNW60F7smb0he0HOZ0By If you would like to subscribe a friend, change your email address, or unsubscribe yourself please use this link: http://info.musiciansfriend.com/cgi-bin24/DM/y/mNW60F7smb0he0HOa0B6 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 15 05:09:38 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B119C16A4CE for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 05:09:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from carebears.mine.nu (ti400720a080-2100.bb.online.no [80.212.168.52]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 831A943D41 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 05:09:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from solskogen@carebears.mine.nu) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by carebears.mine.nu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9F32222F3D for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:09:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from carebears.mine.nu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (wish.carebears.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 15217-01 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:09:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail.carebears.mine.nu (ns.carebears.net [192.168.0.3]) by carebears.mine.nu (Postfix) with SMTP id 5BA75222E99 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:09:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from 148.121.98.106 (SquirrelMail authenticated user solskogen) by mail.carebears.mine.nu with HTTP; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:09:19 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <2303.148.121.98.106.1074172159.squirrel@mail.carebears.mine.nu> Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:09:19 +0100 (CET) From: "Christer Solskogen" To: chat@freebsd.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: by amavis at wish Subject: CFLAGS and such X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 13:09:38 -0000 When a release('make release' og TIER) is made, is there some kind of optimization using CPUTYPE or CFLAGS? If yes, what? If no, why? (I dont know if this is the right place to ask, but if it isn`t please guide me) -- Med vennlig hilsen / Best regards Christer Solskogen http://dtz.cjb.net - http://carebears.mine.nu "Cheap, but not as cheap as your girlfriend!" -Spider Jerusalem From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 15 07:41:09 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A52D16A4CE for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:41:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-67-119-53-122.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [67.119.53.122]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BFD843D70 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:41:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D1B7466C78; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:41:05 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:41:05 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway To: Christer Solskogen Message-ID: <20040115154105.GA13188@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <2303.148.121.98.106.1074172159.squirrel@mail.carebears.mine.nu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="KsGdsel6WgEHnImy" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <2303.148.121.98.106.1074172159.squirrel@mail.carebears.mine.nu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CFLAGS and such X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 15:41:09 -0000 --KsGdsel6WgEHnImy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Thu, Jan 15, 2004 at 02:09:19PM +0100, Christer Solskogen wrote: > When a release('make release' og TIER) is made, is there some kind of > optimization using CPUTYPE or CFLAGS? > If yes, what? If no, why? CFLAGS has the default value of "-O -pipe". Further (e.g. CPU-specific) optimizations are not used by default, because FreeBSD releases are required to work on anything down to a 386 (5.x kernels excepted). Kris --KsGdsel6WgEHnImy Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFABrSRWry0BWjoQKURAgn6AJ9r/pvcXhwAVUmKf+/h6n3U/fZp0gCg2OYa FewDdm6QwpV++nDn5hRYxKQ= =cFj0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --KsGdsel6WgEHnImy-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 15 07:41:58 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99FFB16A4CE for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:41:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.des.no (flood.des.no [217.116.83.31]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F09543D45 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:41:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: by smtp.des.no (Pony Express, from userid 666) id 62DAC530A; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 16:41:56 +0100 (CET) Received: from dwp.des.no (des.no [80.203.228.37]) by smtp.des.no (Pony Express) with ESMTP id 7E2755309; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 16:41:48 +0100 (CET) Received: by dwp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 6D37B33C6A; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 16:41:48 +0100 (CET) To: "Christer Solskogen" References: <2303.148.121.98.106.1074172159.squirrel@mail.carebears.mine.nu> From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 16:41:48 +0100 In-Reply-To: <2303.148.121.98.106.1074172159.squirrel@mail.carebears.mine.nu> (Christer Solskogen's message of "Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:09:19 +0100 (CET)") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.61 (1.212.2.1-2003-12-09-exp) on flood.des.no X-Spam-Level: ss X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.6 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_DYNABLOCK, RCVD_IN_SORBS autolearn=no version=2.61 cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CFLAGS and such X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 15:41:58 -0000 "Christer Solskogen" writes: > When a release('make release' og TIER) is made, is there some kind of > optimization using CPUTYPE or CFLAGS? No. > If yes, what? If no, why? Because the resulting binaries need to run on as many different processors as possible. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 15 10:06:19 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F8D216A4CF for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 10:06:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from out009.toptx.com (out009.toptx.com [38.113.200.29]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 36EE543D54 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 10:06:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from OmvmWAIBAQAGHvQACQAAOw4BNaUPWA@alphaworks.b.tep1.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: IBM alphaWorks Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 10:00:00 -0800 Message-ID: <1589042338-1463747838-1074189683@alphaworks.b.tep1.com> Errors-To: Subject: alphaWorks Flash [January 15, 2004] X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: customersupport@ibmdw.email-publisher.com List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 18:06:19 -0000 ================================================================= alphaWorks Flash :::: Volume 35, Issue 1 :::: January 15, 2004 ================================================================= WELCOME! Get the latest free trial downloads of alphaWorks emerging technologies. To receive an HTML version of the alphaWorks Flash, please send a request to customersupport@ibm.email-publisher.com, with the letters "HTML-AW" in the subject line. ================================================================= TECHNOLOGY SPOTLIGHT: : Policy-Based Data Management Tool ================================================================= This tool allows non-IT experts to define and manage data management and administration policies at the level of business objects. The policies regarding access control for data, record retention and transmission of data between systems are supported by the framework. http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/pdda?Open&ca=daw-flts-010415 ================================================================= NEW TECHNOLOGIES Model for Self-Managing Java Servers The Model for Self-Managing Java Servers is intended to be a working model of a non-stopping, Java-based server which has the self- configuration and self-healing aspects of an autonomic computing, self- managed server. http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/alltimeserver?Open&ca=daw-flts-010415 ::: Voice Toolkit Preview Voice Toolkit Preview is a toolkit for taking voice application development to the next level using graphical call-flow tools and Natural Language Understanding tools. http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/voicetoolkit?Open&ca=daw-flts-010415 ::: Cache Invalidation Adapter for WebSphere Application Server This adapter for WebSphere Application Server's dynamic cache allows it to send invalidations for content that is cached on the Akamai network. http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/cia4was?Open&ca=daw-flnt-010415 ::: Edge-Computing Toolkit for WebSphere Studio This toolkit for WebSphere Studio simplifies development, testing, and deployment of Web applications for the Akamai EdgeComputing powered by WebSphere service. http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/edgetk?Open&ca=daw-flnt-010415 ::: The Edge Computing Project The Edge Computing Project is a technology demonstration of edge computing and its on-demand capacity to take advantage of the Akamai network. http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/edgecomputing?Open&ca=daw-flnt-010415 =================================================================== **************************************************************** LotusSphere 2004 LotusSphere 2004, January 25-29, The Walt Disney World Resort. Lotusphere 2004 is the place to be in January for the latest information on Lotus software and other IBM technologies and solutions. http://www.lotus.com/events/govfor.nsf/wdocs/lshome?Open&ca=daw-flpr-010415 ******************************************************************* =================================================================== TECHNOLOGY UPDATES ::: Business Integration for Games Business Integration for Games provides a highly specialized client that game developers bind into their games. Updates include Commerce services; additional documentation and tutorials. http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/big?Open&ca=daw-flut-011504 ::: IBM Toolkit for MPEG-4 This toolkit consists of a set of Java classes and APIs with five sample applications to generate and playback MPEG-4 content. Version 1.1.1 includes video and audio improvements; and bug fixes. http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/tk4mpeg4?Open&ca=daw-flut-011504 ::: Formal Checkers FoCs is a productivity tool for automatic generation of simulation monitors from formal specifications. Version 1.05 now supports Cadence nc_sim simulator port mapping and many PSL constructs. http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/FoCs?Open&ca=daw-flut-011504 ::: Werdz Werdz corrects the spelling of words after they are spelled the way they sound. Version 4.0 includes Definition tool, International Phonetic Alphabet, speech through Microsoft's speech interface and more. http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/werdz?Open&ca=daw-flut-011504 ================================================================= LICENSABLE TECHNOLOGIES: ::: NotesBuddy NotesBuddy is a lightweight tool for Lotus Notes and Internet (POP3) mail that announces important new mail by voice, pager, or display. http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/awlr.nsf/cl?readform&n=notesbuddy&ca=daw-fllt-011504 ::: Interface Tool for Java Interface Tool for Java is a tool that allows Java programs to communicate with ActiveX objects. It allows easy integration of ActiveX objects into a Java Environment. http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/awlr.nsf/cl?readform&n=bridge2java&ca=daw-fllt-011504 alphaWorks offers IBM alpha technologies for free, 90 day trial download and evaluation. With alphaWorks' commercial licenses, customers can take advantage of IBM technologies before they hit the market without revoking the 90-day trial period. Technologies are licensed as-is, unsupported, and non-warranted. Customers receive updates and the benefit of early adopter feedback that influences the development of these alpha technologies. For more information on the licensing program, see: http://www.alphaWorks.ibm.com/license ***************************************************************** EclipseCon 2004 EclipseCon 2004, February 2-5, 2004 in Anaheim, CA. EclipseCon brings together the Eclipse open source project, community, and ecosystem. The program features keynotes, tutorials, demos, poster sessions, exhibits, and Birds-of-a-Feather sessions. http://www.eclipsecon.org/?Open&ca=daw-flHpr-010415 ***************************************************************** ================================================================= Share your thoughts with the researchers and other developers! We invite you to engage in a discussion regarding alphaWorks technologies by clicking here: http://www.alphaWorks.ibm.com/discussion?open&l=HPB092302,t=awfl Please e-mail your questions and comments to: alphawks@us.ibm.com IBM alphaWorks Flash is a publication of IBM alphaWorks. http://www.alphaWorks.ibm.com/home?open&l=HPB092302,t=awfl IBM alphaWorks, 4400 Silicon Drive, Raleigh, North Carolina, 27713 ================================================================= ABOUT THIS NEWSLETTER ================================================================= To subscribe, send a blank message to: alphaworks-subscribe@ibm.email-publisher.com To unsubscribe: http://alphaworks.u.tclk.net/survey/?a84vPw.beuLUG.ZnJlZWJz.u To update your profile: http://alphaworks.u.tclk.net/survey/?a84vPw.beuLUG.ZnJlZWJz From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 15 10:42:19 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3960416A4CE for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 10:42:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2.speakeasy.net (mail2.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.202]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C093743D5A for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 10:42:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: (qmail 21963 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2004 18:42:12 -0000 Received: from dsl027-160-063.atl1.dsl.speakeasy.net (HELO server.baldwin.cx) ([216.27.160.63]) (envelope-sender ) encrypted SMTP for ; 15 Jan 2004 18:42:12 -0000 Received: from 10.50.40.206 (gw1.twc.weather.com [216.133.140.1]) by server.baldwin.cx (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0FIg2M0082122; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 13:42:02 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) From: John Baldwin To: Kris Kennaway , Christer Solskogen Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 11:24:54 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <2303.148.121.98.106.1074172159.squirrel@mail.carebears.mine.nu> <20040115154105.GA13188@xor.obsecurity.org> In-Reply-To: <20040115154105.GA13188@xor.obsecurity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200401151124.56182.jhb@FreeBSD.org> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CFLAGS and such X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 18:42:19 -0000 On Thursday 15 January 2004 10:41 am, Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Thu, Jan 15, 2004 at 02:09:19PM +0100, Christer Solskogen wrote: > > When a release('make release' og TIER) is made, is there some kind of > > optimization using CPUTYPE or CFLAGS? > > If yes, what? If no, why? > > CFLAGS has the default value of "-O -pipe". Further > (e.g. CPU-specific) optimizations are not used by default, because > FreeBSD releases are required to work on anything down to a 386 (5.x > kernels excepted). Incorrect. We use -mcpu=pentiumpro which optimizes the code flow for a PII or later, but still only uses i386 instructions. Thus, we do optimize for more recent CPUs while still generating code that will run on all CPUs. Check the gcc info pages for the difference between -march and -mcpu on i386 and -mcpu and -mtune on all other archs. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve" = http://www.FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 16 07:29:29 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBDED16A4CF for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 07:29:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.acecape.com (mail1.acecape.com [66.114.74.12]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9314443D62 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 07:29:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lists@natserv.com) Received: from p65-147.acedsl.com (p65-147.acedsl.com [66.114.65.147]) by mail1.acecape.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0GFTR5E028907 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:29:27 -0500 Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:29:57 +0000 (GMT) From: Francisco Reyes X-X-Sender: fran@zoraida.natserv.net To: FreeBSD Chat List Message-ID: <20040116102230.I36035@zoraida.natserv.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Recommendation for small server X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:29:30 -0000 I have a client that has had a FreeBSD server for about 4 years. Boot drive is an old SCSI drive and second drive is IDE. 4 months ago the IDE drive died taking with it data (we lost about 2 weeks of data). Now the replacement disk is dying too ad0s1e: hard error reading fsbn 166931759 of 83465744-83465967 (ad0s1 bn 166931759; cn 10391 tn 5 sn 29) status=59 error=40 We learnt our lesson and we have 2 different types of backup so we will loose no data. In the mean time I am moving the data he needs the most to the SCSI dis, but I am thinking that something in the machine is killing the IDE drives. Thinking of replacing the server all together. Any recommendations for a small server? Also thinking of a 3ware controller to setup RAID 1. Last I used 3ware controllers, several years ago, they did not report to dmesg when a HD was dying. Do they do now? I would much rather get a SCSI raid, but price difference is probably going to be big. This is a small 3 people office primarily using it for samba. Anyone bought recently a small server/desktop from one of the FreeBSD vendors that could recommend? From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 16 07:51:13 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB72D16A4CE; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 07:51:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from 82-41-27-158.cable.ubr04.edin.blueyonder.co.uk (82-41-27-158.cable.ubr04.edin.blueyonder.co.uk [82.41.27.158]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8077243D5F; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 07:51:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andrew@cream.org) Received: from cream.org (spatula.flat [192.168.0.2]) by myriad.flat (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31078C2; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:44:19 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <4008087B.7060607@cream.org> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:51:23 +0000 From: Andrew Boothman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031205 Thunderbird/0.4 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Scott W References: <40077378.5010001@mindcore.net> In-Reply-To: <40077378.5010001@mindcore.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: chat@freebsd.org cc: questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Good BSD/Linux Article (somewhat off-topic) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: chat@freebsd.org List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:51:13 -0000 [Moving to -chat] Scott W wrote: > Hey all, just wanted to share a link to an interesting article > comparing/contrasting *BSD (primarily FreeBSD) and Linux, at > http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/rants/bsd4linux/bsd4linux1.php > > No affiliation, came across it on one of the bsd news sites...as a long > time Linux user/admin/developer(pre-1.0 kernel), but dealing with > Solaris and other *nixes pre-Linux, it's interesting to see someone else > put to words some comments along the line of some of my 'close, but not > quite completely thought out' thoughts, when I've tried to explain to > co-workers and friends some of the reasons I've come to be less than > thrilled with RedHat, yet really like Gentoo and FreeBSD. Yes that is a great read. Ideal for sending to Linux-using friends who can't understand why I'm not using Linux myself. Personally I found it from my daily email from Google News which tells me about any new postings to news sites that contain "FreeBSD". I've found it very useful for seeing what large and small sites are saying about FreeBSD, even if just mentioning it in passing. See http://www.google.com/newsalerts Andrew From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 16 08:01:30 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A39816A4CE; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:01:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from praetor.linc-it.com (adsl-068-157-070-217.sip.jan.bellsouth.net [68.157.70.217]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0A5A43D55; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:01:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from mortis.over-yonder.net (adsl-19-137-116.jan.bellsouth.net [68.19.137.116]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by praetor.linc-it.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B43AB153D0; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:01:26 -0600 (CST) Received: by mortis.over-yonder.net (Postfix, from userid 100) id 9D4FE20F3D; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:01:24 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:01:24 -0600 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20040116160124.GF41788@over-yonder.net> References: <40077378.5010001@mindcore.net> <4008087B.7060607@cream.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4008087B.7060607@cream.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i-fullermd.1 X-Editor: vi X-OS: FreeBSD cc: questions@freebsd.org cc: Scott W Subject: Re: Good BSD/Linux Article (somewhat off-topic) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:01:30 -0000 On Fri, Jan 16, 2004 at 03:51:23PM +0000 I heard the voice of Andrew Boothman, and lo! it spake thus: > > Scott W wrote: > > >Hey all, just wanted to share a link to an interesting article > >comparing/contrasting *BSD (primarily FreeBSD) and Linux, at > >http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/rants/bsd4linux/bsd4linux1.php > > Yes that is a great read. Ideal for sending to Linux-using friends who > can't understand why I'm not using Linux myself. > > Personally I found it from my daily email from Google News which tells > me about any new postings to news sites that contain "FreeBSD". I've > found it very useful for seeing what large and small sites are saying > about FreeBSD, even if just mentioning it in passing. Y'know, I posted it to -advocacy and my local LUG mailing list on Tuesday, hoping maybe a couple people would read it and have some good comments and suggestions on it. What happened is I haven't gotten much of anything done the past few days, from using the comments and suggestions, and answering all the emails I've gotten. I guess somebody DID find it useful :) -- Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net Systems/Network Administrator | http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/ "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is because I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 16 08:18:04 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEC5D16A4CE; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:18:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from moo.sysabend.org (moo.sysabend.org [66.111.41.70]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA05943D69; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:18:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ragnar@sysabend.org) Received: by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 1204EEA6; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:18:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10DC394B; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:18:03 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:18:03 -0800 (PST) From: Jamie Bowden To: "Matthew D. Fuller" In-Reply-To: <20040116160124.GF41788@over-yonder.net> Message-ID: <20040116081448.I78161-100000@moo.sysabend.org> X-representing: Only myself. X-badge: We don't need no stinking badges. X-obligatory-profanity: Fuck X-moo: Moo. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: chat@freebsd.org cc: questions@freebsd.org cc: Scott W Subject: Re: Good BSD/Linux Article (somewhat off-topic) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:18:05 -0000 On Fri, 16 Jan 2004, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > Y'know, I posted it to -advocacy and my local LUG mailing list on > Tuesday, hoping maybe a couple people would read it and have some good > comments and suggestions on it. What happened is I haven't gotten much > of anything done the past few days, from using the comments and > suggestions, and answering all the emails I've gotten. I read it from the link off of Daemon News' Daily section. If someone wants to /. it, you'll probably need to upgrade your connection for a few days, and add filters to your mail to screen the nastygrams you'll be sure to get from the shallow (and usually 14yo) end of the Linux Userbase Pool. Jamie Bowden -- "It was half way to Rivendell when the drugs began to take hold" Hunter S Tolkien "Fear and Loathing in Barad Dur" Iain Bowen From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 16 09:46:26 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C37D16A4CE for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:46:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from praetor.linc-it.com (adsl-068-157-070-217.sip.jan.bellsouth.net [68.157.70.217]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4F5143D6E for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:46:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from mortis.over-yonder.net (adsl-19-137-116.jan.bellsouth.net [68.19.137.116]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by praetor.linc-it.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1B88153D0; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:46:07 -0600 (CST) Received: by mortis.over-yonder.net (Postfix, from userid 100) id 023C820F2A; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:46:05 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:46:05 -0600 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Jamie Bowden Message-ID: <20040116174605.GA29668@over-yonder.net> References: <20040116160124.GF41788@over-yonder.net> <20040116081448.I78161-100000@moo.sysabend.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040116081448.I78161-100000@moo.sysabend.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i-fullermd.1 X-Editor: vi X-OS: FreeBSD cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Good BSD/Linux Article (somewhat off-topic) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:46:26 -0000 [ Cc trimmed ] On Fri, Jan 16, 2004 at 08:18:03AM -0800 I heard the voice of Jamie Bowden, and lo! it spake thus: > > If someone wants to /. it, you'll probably need to upgrade your > connection for a few days, and add filters to your mail to screen > the nastygrams you'll be sure to get from the shallow (and usually > 14yo) end of the Linux Userbase Pool. Well, I've already gotten just a little load from it being on osnews.com and linuxtoday.com (and others, but those are the big dogs). If it ends up on /., forget connection and filters; I'll run off to Tijuana and spend a week forgetting that the Internet exists 8-} -- Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net Systems/Network Administrator | http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/ "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is because I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 16 09:57:03 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17A6616A4CE for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:57:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from tx3.oucs.ox.ac.uk (tx3.oucs.ox.ac.uk [163.1.2.167]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0AFD43D1F for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:56:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk) Received: from scan3.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.166] helo=localhost) by tx3.oucs.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AhYDK-0004fK-PK for chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:56:58 +0000 Received: from rx3.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.165]) by localhost (scan3.oucs.ox.ac.uk [163.1.2.166]) (amavisd-new, port 25) with ESMTP id 17738-05 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:56:58 +0000 (GMT) Received: from gateway.wadham.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.161.253]) by rx3.oucs.ox.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AhYDK-0004fF-Bv for chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:56:58 +0000 Received: (qmail 32577 invoked by uid 0); 16 Jan 2004 17:56:58 -0000 Received: from colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk by gateway by uid 71 with qmail-scanner-1.16 (sweep: 2.14/3.71. spamassassin: 2.53. Clear:. Processed in 1.513596 secs); 16 Jan 2004 17:56:58 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk via gateway X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.16 (Clear:. Processed in 1.513596 secs) Received: from dhcp1131.wadham.ox.ac.uk (HELO piii600.wadham.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.161.131) by gateway.wadham.ox.ac.uk with SMTP; 16 Jan 2004 17:56:57 -0000 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.1.20040116175159.03f4dd48@imap.sfu.ca> X-Sender: cperciva@imap.sfu.ca (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:56:54 +0000 To: Jamie Bowden From: Colin Percival In-Reply-To: <20040116081448.I78161-100000@moo.sysabend.org> References: <20040116160124.GF41788@over-yonder.net> <20040116081448.I78161-100000@moo.sysabend.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed cc: chat@freebsd.org cc: "Matthew D. Fuller" Subject: Re: Good BSD/Linux Article (somewhat off-topic) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:57:03 -0000 At 16:18 16/01/2004, Jamie Bowden wrote: >I read it from the link off of Daemon News' Daily section. If someone >wants to /. it, you'll probably need to upgrade your connection for a few >days, and add filters to your mail to screen the nastygrams you'll be sure >to get from the shallow (and usually 14yo) end of the Linux Userbase Pool. I think the /. effect is overrated these days. Network connections and processors have gotten faster much more rapidly than the slashdot readership has grown; the only time slashdot kills anything now is when people use excessively dynamic pages. Colin Percival From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 16 12:23:06 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 910CA16A4D4 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:23:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (A17-250-248-47.apple.com [17.250.248.47]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B087043D41 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:23:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lomion@mac.com) Received: from mac.com (smtpin07-en2 [10.13.10.152]) by smtpout.mac.com (8.12.6/MantshX 2.0) with ESMTP id i0GKN3EU029933; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:23:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.2.147] (bgp585760bgs.jdover01.nj.comcast.net [68.39.198.236]) (authenticated bits=0)i0GKN2gj026810; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:23:02 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.1.20040116175159.03f4dd48@imap.sfu.ca> References: <20040116160124.GF41788@over-yonder.net> <20040116081448.I78161-100000@moo.sysabend.org> <6.0.1.1.1.20040116175159.03f4dd48@imap.sfu.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Lawrence Sica Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:22:55 -0500 To: Colin Percival X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) cc: chat@freebsd.org cc: "Matthew D. Fuller" Subject: Re: Good BSD/Linux Article (somewhat off-topic) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 20:23:06 -0000 On Jan 16, 2004, at 12:56 PM, Colin Percival wrote: > At 16:18 16/01/2004, Jamie Bowden wrote: >> I read it from the link off of Daemon News' Daily section. If someone >> wants to /. it, you'll probably need to upgrade your connection for a >> few >> days, and add filters to your mail to screen the nastygrams you'll be >> sure >> to get from the shallow (and usually 14yo) end of the Linux Userbase >> Pool. > > I think the /. effect is overrated these days. Network connections > and > processors have gotten faster much more rapidly than the slashdot > readership has grown; the only time slashdot kills anything now is when > people use excessively dynamic pages. > I have to disagree here. As I have been slashdotted in the recent past. It still has a serious affect. --Larry From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 16 12:51:22 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7836A16A4CE for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:51:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from tx1.oucs.ox.ac.uk (tx1.oucs.ox.ac.uk [129.67.1.167]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 223D543D5A for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:51:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk) Received: from scan1.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([129.67.1.166] helo=localhost) by tx1.oucs.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Ahaw3-0001mJ-GZ for chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 20:51:19 +0000 Received: from rx1.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([129.67.1.165]) by localhost (scan1.oucs.ox.ac.uk [129.67.1.166]) (amavisd-new, port 25) with ESMTP id 06720-04 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 20:51:19 +0000 (GMT) Received: from gateway.wadham.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.161.253]) by rx1.oucs.ox.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Ahaw2-0001m7-6F for chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 20:51:18 +0000 Received: (qmail 19232 invoked by uid 0); 16 Jan 2004 20:51:18 -0000 Received: from colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk by gateway by uid 71 with qmail-scanner-1.16 (sweep: 2.14/3.71. spamassassin: 2.53. Clear:. Processed in 1.571626 secs); 16 Jan 2004 20:51:18 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk via gateway X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.16 (Clear:. Processed in 1.571626 secs) Received: from dhcp1131.wadham.ox.ac.uk (HELO piii600.wadham.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.161.131) by gateway.wadham.ox.ac.uk with SMTP; 16 Jan 2004 20:51:17 -0000 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.1.20040116204850.03f69680@imap.sfu.ca> X-Sender: cperciva@imap.sfu.ca (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 20:51:11 +0000 To: Lawrence Sica From: Colin Percival In-Reply-To: References: <20040116160124.GF41788@over-yonder.net> <20040116081448.I78161-100000@moo.sysabend.org> <6.0.1.1.1.20040116175159.03f4dd48@imap.sfu.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed cc: chat@freebsd.org cc: "Matthew D. Fuller" Subject: Re: Good BSD/Linux Article (somewhat off-topic) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 20:51:22 -0000 At 20:22 16/01/2004, Lawrence Sica wrote: >On Jan 16, 2004, at 12:56 PM, Colin Percival wrote: > > I think the /. effect is overrated these days. Network connections and >>processors have gotten faster much more rapidly than the slashdot >>readership has grown; the only time slashdot kills anything now is when >>people use excessively dynamic pages. > >I have to disagree here. As I have been slashdotted in the recent past. It >still has a serious affect. Well, it didn't have very significant effect on December 30th, when my depenguinator was slashdotted. :) Colin Percival From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 16 12:53:51 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68A0916A4CE for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:53:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (A17-250-248-97.apple.com [17.250.248.97]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A48043D5F for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:53:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lomion@mac.com) Received: from mac.com (smtpin08-en2 [10.13.10.153]) by smtpout.mac.com (Xserve/MantshX 2.0) with ESMTP id i0GKrbQP019064; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:53:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.2.147] (bgp585760bgs.jdover01.nj.comcast.net [68.39.198.236]) (authenticated bits=0)i0GKrbU1017023; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:53:37 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.1.20040116204850.03f69680@imap.sfu.ca> References: <20040116160124.GF41788@over-yonder.net> <20040116081448.I78161-100000@moo.sysabend.org> <6.0.1.1.1.20040116175159.03f4dd48@imap.sfu.ca> <6.0.1.1.1.20040116204850.03f69680@imap.sfu.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <0A4E7A9C-4866-11D8-A069-000393A335A2@mac.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Lawrence Sica Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:53:30 -0500 To: Colin Percival X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) cc: chat@freebsd.org cc: "Matthew D. Fuller" Subject: Re: Good BSD/Linux Article (somewhat off-topic) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 20:53:51 -0000 On Jan 16, 2004, at 3:51 PM, Colin Percival wrote: > At 20:22 16/01/2004, Lawrence Sica wrote: >> On Jan 16, 2004, at 12:56 PM, Colin Percival wrote: >> > I think the /. effect is overrated these days. Network connections >> and >>> processors have gotten faster much more rapidly than the slashdot >>> readership has grown; the only time slashdot kills anything now is >>> when >>> people use excessively dynamic pages. >> >> I have to disagree here. As I have been slashdotted in the recent >> past. It >> still has a serious affect. > > Well, it didn't have very significant effect on December 30th, when > my > depenguinator was slashdotted. :) > Well i was working for a "christian" hosting company. And we were slashdotted very heavily heh, we also drew some attacks as a result at the same time. it is real fun dealing with a syn flood then a slashdot then another attack ;) --Larry From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 17 01:20:59 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6576216A4CE for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 01:20:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from praetor.linc-it.com (adsl-068-157-070-217.sip.jan.bellsouth.net [68.157.70.217]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D412243D46 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 01:20:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from mortis.over-yonder.net (adsl-19-137-116.jan.bellsouth.net [68.19.137.116]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by praetor.linc-it.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F5C21521C; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 03:20:56 -0600 (CST) Received: by mortis.over-yonder.net (Postfix, from userid 100) id 2982120F95; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 03:20:52 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 03:20:51 -0600 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Colin Percival Message-ID: <20040117092051.GF87276@over-yonder.net> References: <20040116160124.GF41788@over-yonder.net> <20040116081448.I78161-100000@moo.sysabend.org> <6.0.1.1.1.20040116175159.03f4dd48@imap.sfu.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.1.20040116175159.03f4dd48@imap.sfu.ca> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i-fullermd.1 X-Editor: vi X-OS: FreeBSD cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Good BSD/Linux Article (somewhat off-topic) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 09:20:59 -0000 On Fri, Jan 16, 2004 at 05:56:54PM +0000 I heard the voice of Colin Percival, and lo! it spake thus: > > I think the /. effect is overrated these days. Network connections and > processors have gotten faster much more rapidly than the slashdot > readership has grown; the only time slashdot kills anything now is when > people use excessively dynamic pages. My network connection isn't all that fast for serving, and /. DID, in fact, nail it to the wall solid for quite a few hours. Impressive. -- Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net Systems/Network Administrator | http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/ "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is because I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 17 16:01:43 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7298116A4CE for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 16:01:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 409B943D45 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 16:01:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fledge.watson.org (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0HNxjUd023799; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 18:59:45 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from localhost (robert@localhost)i0HNxhLc023796; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 18:59:44 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 18:59:43 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Colin Percival In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.1.20040116175159.03f4dd48@imap.sfu.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: chat@freebsd.org cc: "Matthew D. Fuller" Subject: Re: Good BSD/Linux Article (somewhat off-topic) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 00:01:43 -0000 On Fri, 16 Jan 2004, Colin Percival wrote: > At 16:18 16/01/2004, Jamie Bowden wrote: > >I read it from the link off of Daemon News' Daily section. If someone > >wants to /. it, you'll probably need to upgrade your connection for a few > >days, and add filters to your mail to screen the nastygrams you'll be sure > >to get from the shallow (and usually 14yo) end of the Linux Userbase Pool. > > I think the /. effect is overrated these days. Network connections > and processors have gotten faster much more rapidly than the slashdot > readership has grown; the only time slashdot kills anything now is when > people use excessively dynamic pages. My experience is much the same -- I've had various web sites I hosted slashdotted on various occasions, and for a long time I hosted them on a p120 on a small fraction of a T1 without any problem. Of course, I don't use dynamic content, and it seems like the people who really have the problems are the people using a lot of CGI scripts with perl on their front page :-). I suspect that the /. effect has gotten easier to carry over time in part because a lot of the clients are higher bandwidth than they were before -- if you have moderate size files being tranfered, lots of long-lived slow connections take up a lot more memory than short-lived ones. Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Projects robert@fledge.watson.org Senior Research Scientist, McAfee Research From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 17 16:11:19 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0394116A4EC for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 16:11:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from tx3.oucs.ox.ac.uk (tx3.oucs.ox.ac.uk [163.1.2.167]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 043FE43D48 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 16:11:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk) Received: from scan3.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.166] helo=localhost) by tx3.oucs.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Ai0X1-00015z-Pj for chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 00:11:12 +0000 Received: from rx3.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.165]) by localhost (scan3.oucs.ox.ac.uk [163.1.2.166]) (amavisd-new, port 25) with ESMTP id 03890-06 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 00:11:11 +0000 (GMT) Received: from gateway.wadham.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.161.253]) by rx3.oucs.ox.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Ai0X1-00015n-CE for chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 00:11:11 +0000 Received: (qmail 15128 invoked by uid 0); 18 Jan 2004 00:11:11 -0000 Received: from colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk by gateway by uid 71 with qmail-scanner-1.16 (sweep: 2.14/3.71. spamassassin: 2.53. Clear:. Processed in 6.790313 secs); 18 Jan 2004 00:11:11 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk via gateway X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.16 (Clear:. Processed in 6.790313 secs) Received: from dhcp1131.wadham.ox.ac.uk (HELO piii600.wadham.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.161.131) by gateway.wadham.ox.ac.uk with SMTP; 18 Jan 2004 00:11:04 -0000 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.1.20040118000417.02bbee70@imap.sfu.ca> X-Sender: cperciva@imap.sfu.ca (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 00:11:01 +0000 To: Robert Watson From: Colin Percival In-Reply-To: References: <6.0.1.1.1.20040116175159.03f4dd48@imap.sfu.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Good BSD/Linux Article (somewhat off-topic) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 00:11:19 -0000 At 23:59 17/01/2004, Robert Watson wrote: >I suspect that the /. effect has gotten easier to carry >over time in part because a lot of the clients are higher bandwidth than >they were before -- if you have moderate size files being tranfered, lots >of long-lived slow connections take up a lot more memory than short-lived >ones. Actually, this raises an interesting point -- if 1. There is a significant amount of network traffic, 2. There is memory pressure, and 3. There are several runnable processes, it might be a good idea to give scheduling priority to the oldest process, in the hope that it will complete and free its memory. Colin Percival From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 17 16:42:57 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4804016A4CE for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 16:42:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from gldis.ca (constans.gldis.ca [66.11.169.73]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABFD243D55 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 16:42:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gldisater@gldis.ca) Received: from gldis.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gldis.ca (8.12.8p2/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0I0eABc015492; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 19:40:11 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from gldisater@gldis.ca) Message-ID: <4009D71E.3020209@gldis.ca> Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 19:45:18 -0500 From: Jeremy Faulkner User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040117 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Colin Percival References: <6.0.1.1.1.20040116175159.03f4dd48@imap.sfu.ca> <6.0.1.1.1.20040118000417.02bbee70@imap.sfu.ca> In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.1.20040118000417.02bbee70@imap.sfu.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on constans.gldis.ca cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Good BSD/Linux Article (somewhat off-topic) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 00:42:57 -0000 Colin Percival wrote: > At 23:59 17/01/2004, Robert Watson wrote: > >> I suspect that the /. effect has gotten easier to carry >> over time in part because a lot of the clients are higher bandwidth than >> they were before -- if you have moderate size files being tranfered, lots >> of long-lived slow connections take up a lot more memory than short-lived >> ones. > > > Actually, this raises an interesting point -- if > 1. There is a significant amount of network traffic, > 2. There is memory pressure, and > 3. There are several runnable processes, > it might be a good idea to give scheduling priority to the oldest > process, in the hope that it will complete and free its memory. > > Colin Percival dnetc and seti would be the oldest process on some machines. So making this a mandatory setting would be counter productive. -- Jeremy Faulkner http://www.gldis.ca From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 17 16:48:06 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA73716A4CE for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 16:48:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from tx3.oucs.ox.ac.uk (tx3.oucs.ox.ac.uk [163.1.2.167]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01DE043D1F for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 16:48:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk) Received: from scan3.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.166] helo=localhost) by tx3.oucs.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Ai16f-0007aX-PX for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 00:48:01 +0000 Received: from rx3.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.165]) by localhost (scan3.oucs.ox.ac.uk [163.1.2.166]) (amavisd-new, port 25) with ESMTP id 28769-08 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 00:48:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from gateway.wadham.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.161.253]) by rx3.oucs.ox.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Ai16f-0007aT-C8 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 00:48:01 +0000 Received: (qmail 24061 invoked by uid 0); 18 Jan 2004 00:48:01 -0000 Received: from colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk by gateway by uid 71 with qmail-scanner-1.16 (sweep: 2.14/3.71. spamassassin: 2.53. Clear:. Processed in 3.079248 secs); 18 Jan 2004 00:48:01 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk via gateway X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.16 (Clear:. Processed in 3.079248 secs) Received: from dhcp1131.wadham.ox.ac.uk (HELO piii600.wadham.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.161.131) by gateway.wadham.ox.ac.uk with SMTP; 18 Jan 2004 00:47:58 -0000 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.1.20040118004459.03fe6c10@imap.sfu.ca> X-Sender: cperciva@imap.sfu.ca (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 00:47:49 +0000 To: Jeremy Faulkner From: Colin Percival In-Reply-To: <4009D71E.3020209@gldis.ca> References: <6.0.1.1.1.20040116175159.03f4dd48@imap.sfu.ca> <6.0.1.1.1.20040118000417.02bbee70@imap.sfu.ca> <4009D71E.3020209@gldis.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Good BSD/Linux Article (somewhat off-topic) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 00:48:06 -0000 At 00:45 18/01/2004, Jeremy Faulkner wrote: >Colin Percival wrote: > > Actually, this raises an interesting point -- if >>1. There is a significant amount of network traffic, >>2. There is memory pressure, and >>3. There are several runnable processes, >>it might be a good idea to give scheduling priority to the oldest >>process, in the hope that it will complete and free its memory. >>Colin Percival > >dnetc and seti would be the oldest process on some machines. So making >this a mandatory setting would be counter productive. You're absolutely right -- s/oldest process/oldest process which started within the past 5 seconds/ would probably be more appropriate. (And, for bonus points, we could make this behaviour depend upon a global variable which would be set by network drivers if they detected the string "slashdot" within any incoming packets...) Colin Percival From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 17 17:44:49 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0314216A4CE for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 17:44:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from praetor.linc-it.com (adsl-068-157-070-217.sip.jan.bellsouth.net [68.157.70.217]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6223E43D3F for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 17:44:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from mortis.over-yonder.net (adsl-81-240-202.jan.bellsouth.net [65.81.240.202]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by praetor.linc-it.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F6BA153D1; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 19:44:45 -0600 (CST) Received: by mortis.over-yonder.net (Postfix, from userid 100) id 5C69C20F94; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 19:44:43 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 19:44:43 -0600 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Colin Percival Message-ID: <20040118014443.GB37559@over-yonder.net> References: <6.0.1.1.1.20040116175159.03f4dd48@imap.sfu.ca> <6.0.1.1.1.20040118000417.02bbee70@imap.sfu.ca> <4009D71E.3020209@gldis.ca> <6.0.1.1.1.20040118004459.03fe6c10@imap.sfu.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.1.20040118004459.03fe6c10@imap.sfu.ca> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i-fullermd.1 X-Editor: vi X-OS: FreeBSD cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Good BSD/Linux Article (somewhat off-topic) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 01:44:49 -0000 On Sun, Jan 18, 2004 at 12:47:49AM +0000 I heard the voice of Colin Percival, and lo! it spake thus: > > You're absolutely right -- s/oldest process/oldest process which > started within the past 5 seconds/ would probably be more appropriate. > (And, for bonus points, we could make this behaviour depend upon a > global variable which would be set by network drivers if they detected > the string "slashdot" within any incoming packets...) ipfw add restrict 256kbit ip from me 80 to any containing "slashdot" :) -- Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net Systems/Network Administrator | http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/ "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is because I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 17 22:41:15 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DDDD16A4CE for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 22:41:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from www.bluecirclesoft.com (cpe-024-165-114-048.cinci.rr.com [24.165.114.48]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5332843D45 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 22:41:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mrami@bluecirclesoft.com) Received: from www.bluecirclesoft.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) i0I6fC5l004947; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 01:41:12 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mrami@bluecirclesoft.com) Received: (from mrami@localhost) by www.bluecirclesoft.com (8.12.8p2/8.12.8/Submit) id i0I6fBXD004946; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 01:41:11 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 01:41:10 -0500 From: Marc Ramirez To: Jeremy Faulkner Message-ID: <20040118064110.GC49083@www.bluecirclesoft.com> References: <6.0.1.1.1.20040116175159.03f4dd48@imap.sfu.ca> <6.0.1.1.1.20040118000417.02bbee70@imap.sfu.ca> <4009D71E.3020209@gldis.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="4ZLFUWh1odzi/v6L" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4009D71E.3020209@gldis.ca> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Good BSD/Linux Article (somewhat off-topic) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 06:41:15 -0000 --4ZLFUWh1odzi/v6L Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Jan 17, 2004 at 07:45:18PM -0500, Jeremy Faulkner wrote: > Colin Percival wrote: > >At 23:59 17/01/2004, Robert Watson wrote: > > > >>I suspect that the /. effect has gotten easier to carry > >>over time in part because a lot of the clients are higher bandwidth than > >>they were before -- if you have moderate size files being tranfered, lo= ts > >>of long-lived slow connections take up a lot more memory than short-liv= ed > >>ones. > > > > > > Actually, this raises an interesting point -- if > >1. There is a significant amount of network traffic, > >2. There is memory pressure, and > >3. There are several runnable processes, > >it might be a good idea to give scheduling priority to the oldest > >process, in the hope that it will complete and free its memory. > > > >Colin Percival >=20 > dnetc and seti would be the oldest process on some machines. Actually, that'd be init. ;) Marc. > So making=20 > this a mandatory setting would be counter productive. >=20 > --=20 > Jeremy Faulkner http://www.gldis.ca > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" --=20 Marc Ramirez Blue Circle Software Corporation 513-688-1070 (main) 513-382-1270 (direct) http://www.bluecirclesoft.com http://www.mrami.com (personal) --4ZLFUWh1odzi/v6L Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFACiqFg1EgpGw750IRApg1AJ9yoHluL2yqa4YHeMy4nxHmSA+5tQCfQVvb OtR3gnAqcUstZXk0aCm6orw= =J3mP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --4ZLFUWh1odzi/v6L--