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Date:      Mon, 13 Jul 2020 17:05:50 -0700
From:      Don Wilde <>
To:        Aryeh Friedman <>, Brandon helsley <>
Cc:        FreeBSD Mailing List <>
Subject:   Re: Petite Cloud, CBSD, Intellij
Message-ID:  <>
In-Reply-To: <>
References:  <> <> <> <> <>

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On 7/13/20 3:39 PM, Aryeh Friedman wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 6:16 PM Don Wilde < 
> <>> wrote:
>     On 7/13/20 2:49 PM, Aryeh Friedman wrote:
>>     On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 12:46 PM Don Wilde <
>>     <>> wrote:
>>         On 7/13/20 5:59 AM, Brandon helsley wrote:
>     <flame bait> Personally, I like the LLVM-based CLANG and Crystal.
>     Most of the installation time comes from the various versions of
>     LLVM being requested by the HLL. IMHO, the LLVM is a much more
>     flexible and accessible virtual execution engine than Oracle's
>     Java and JVM. </flame bait>
> C/C++ most certainly are not beginner friendly languages and the OP is 
> someone who has never done programming before.
> -- 
> Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer,

Doesn't make him a bad guy, Aryeh. Given that Brandon is already doing 
his best to learn _and_ to contribute to the Project he doesn't deserve 
such crabby comments, although I expected such when I bracketed my 
opinion with <flame bait></flame bait>.

IMHO, while Java syntax is deceptively simple, your comments to date 
prove that _using_ the language in the real world is not trivial. I made 
the mistake a few months back of attempting to compile the entire JDK8 
code base on a rock-stable Ubuntu 18 system and it was a nightmare. The 
successive approximations you have gone through to get a working IDE and 
JVM deployment environment for Java show that it is a challenge, even 
for an experienced coder as you obviously are.

AFA CLANG and Crystal, C++ is what colleges teach newbie coders in CS. 
Business apps coders headed for IT and (shudder) the IT web stack get 
Java. Admittedly, they don't go very deep (in either of those cases) but 
the user base is out there.  C++ is also what a lot of FreeBSD itself is 
written in these days, so knowing at least something about it is A Very 
Good Thing(tm).

Crystal is based on Ruby, the most elegant language I have ever used, 
and I started with assembler on 8-bit micro controllers in the 80s. 
That's MPHO, but I've been coding for the Ruby interpreter since 2004. 
Crystal has a wonderful combination of both dynamic and static typing. 
It's a language with incredible depth but elegant simplicity, and it's 
extremely well documented from top to bottom.

As always, YMMV.

Don Wilde
* What is the Internet of Things but a system      *
* of systems including humans?                     *

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