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Date:      Wed, 23 Jul 2014 19:52:58 -0400
From:      Shawn Webb <lattera@gmail.com>
To:        Pedro Giffuni <pfg@freebsd.org>
Cc:        PaX Team <pageexec@freemail.hu>, Oliver Pinter <oliver.pntr@gmail.com>, Robert Watson <rwatson@FreeBSD.org>, Bryan Drewery <bdrewery@FreeBSD.org>, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: [RFC] ASLR Whitepaper and Candidate Final Patch
Message-ID:  <20140723235258.GQ29618@pwnie.vrt.sourcefire.com>
In-Reply-To: <D4BC6F5C-E041-42BA-B798-85F7911390A6@freebsd.org>
References:  <96C72773-3239-427E-A90B-D05FF0F5B782@freebsd.org> <20140720201858.GB29618@pwnie.vrt.sourcefire.com> <alpine.BSF.2.11.1407230017490.88645@fledge.watson.org> <20140723004543.GH29618@pwnie.vrt.sourcefire.com> <D7CEDB47-2818-461A-BB70-479BEBDCEEE9@freebsd.org> <20140723234455.GP29618@pwnie.vrt.sourcefire.com> <D4BC6F5C-E041-42BA-B798-85F7911390A6@freebsd.org>

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On Jul 23, 2014 06:50 PM -0500, Pedro Giffuni wrote:
>=20
> Il giorno 23/lug/2014, alle ore 18:44, Shawn Webb <lattera@gmail.com> ha =
scritto:
>=20
> > On Jul 23, 2014 06:37 PM -0500, Pedro Giffuni wrote:
> >> Hi;
> >>=20
> >> Il giorno 22/lug/2014, alle ore 19:45, Shawn Webb <lattera@gmail.com> =
ha scritto:
> >>=20
> >>>>> ...
> >>>>=20
> >>>> Hi Shawn:
> >>>>=20
> >>>> Great news that this work is coming to fruition -- ASLR is long over=
due.
> >>>>=20
> >>>> Are you having any luck with performance measurements?  Unixbench se=
ems like a=20
> >>>> good starting point, but I wonder if it would be useful to look, in=
=20
> >>>> particular, at memory-mapping intensive workloads that might be affe=
cted as a=20
> >>>> result of changes in kernel VM data-structure use, or greater fragme=
ntation of
> >>>> the address space.  I'm not sure I have a specific application here =
in mind --=20
> >>>> in the past I might have pointed out tools such as ElectricFence tha=
t tend to=20
> >>>> increase fragmentation themselves.
> >>>=20
> >>> The unixbench tests on that laptop have finished. However, I've been
> >>> fighting a pesky migraine these last couple days, so I haven't had the
> >>> opportunity to aggregate the results into a nice little spreadsheet. =
I'm
> >>> hoping to finish it up by the end of the week.
> >>>=20
> >>> I'll take a look at ElectricFence this weekend. Additionally, I have a
> >>> netbook somewhere. Once I find it and its power cord, I'll install
> >>> FreeBSD/x86 and re-run the same tests on that.
> >>>=20
> >>=20
> >> Somewhat related to ElectricFence? will ASLR have an adverse effect on=
 debuggers?
> >>=20
> >> I googled around and got to this:
> >>=20
> >> http://www.outflux.net/blog/archives/2010/07/03/gdb-turns-off-aslr/
> >=20
> > I've been doing all my ClamAV development on my FreeBSD box with ASLR
> > enabled. Development tools like gdb and valgrind work great, even with
> > corefiles. I have not, however, tried lldb.
> >=20
>=20
> OK, but it?s worth to take a look if we need to support something to turn=
 it off.
> Apparently gdb disables ASLR on MacOSX too:
>=20
> http://reverse.put.as/2011/08/11/how-gdb-disables-aslr-in-mac-os-x-lion/

Completely agreed. It's easily possible my use case is different than
others'. The more eyes on this project and the more testers we have, the
better.

Thanks,

Shawn

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