Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 06:38:51 +0300 From: Giorgos Keramidas <keramida@FreeBSD.org> To: Ken McGlothlen <mcglk@artlogix.com> Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: rhetorical-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20020620033851.GA61731@hades.hell.gr> In-Reply-To: <87u1ny99ot.fsf@ralf.artlogix.com> References: <20020619103048.28997.h003.c015.wm@mail.compgeek.com.criticalpath.net> <87u1ny99ot.fsf@ralf.artlogix.com>
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On 2002-06-19 15:37 +0000, Ken McGlothlen wrote:
> "Jon Noack" <noackjr@compgeek.com> writes:
> > > Okay, 4.6-RELEASE has been out for what, a few days? And it was
> > > released with broken PPPOE code in the kernel source. There's a
> > > documented bug. So why hasn't it been fixed in CVS yet for
> > > relang_4_6?
The branch is called RELENG_4_6. Capitalized, and "RELENG".
> > If it's bothering you so much why don't you fix it? Seriously.
> > [...]
This is a bit blunt but is still true.
> I can think of no better way to marginalize FreeBSD than support
> responses like that.
You are probably right. However, let us not be hasty in the exchange
of bitter, angry words, and wait a little until the security officers
have a bit of time to send the advisory. I see that my mailbox for
freebsd-announce now has the security announcement you have asked for.
It was effectively being written while you were posting :-)
The people who are involved on a -RELEASE are not only the developers
of FreeBSD but the dozens of users who have tried and tested their
favorite packages. If in this -RELEASE you find that some package you
are using does not work as expected, you could always help the release
engineering team in a few months that the next release will come out.
Your assistance is very important, and valuable. Before the release
happens you can use the -RC (release candidate) versions of FreeBSD,
and see if they break anything that is deemed important by you. In
that case, a simple bug report is usually enough to get you credits
for being an "honourable bugbuster", and a bug report that includes a
solution is a sure way to the "hall of eternal fame" :P
I'm not sure if this was meant by the original posted, or if it was
the specific words that he chose to put his thoughts to that has
offended you, but it all boils down to:
You can help us all, developers & users alike, by assisting in
the process of the next release, with feedback that enables
the developers roll out a release of higher quality, that
includes more packages, less bugs; a release that you will
feel all warm and fuzzy inside, knowing that it contains parts
that you have played a major part in.
As far as the security bugs in Apache or other ports are concerned,
aren't you being a bit too paranoid now? Yes, I know that 4.6-RELEASE
cdroms will include a buggy version of Apache. But by now, so do the
cdroms of 3.2-RELEASE that I had bought years ago and all the rest
that are in between. Third-party software (because ports are just
that... software that is maintained by vendors that are neither you,
the user of the FreeBSD system, nor the developers of FreeBSD) are
not under the control of the release engineers. It is obvious that a
program that is externally maintained might have bugs that the users
or developers of FreeBSD do not know about, until the very last
minute. You will probably agree with me that trying to roll a RELEASE
that includes 7000+ packages, while starting over again and again, if
a single one of them is found to be buggy a few days after[1] the
official announcement of the release, is NEVER going to end...
Cheers,
- Giorgos
[1] The bug that you seem to have been annoyed about was announced on
bugtraq *AFTER* the release of FreeBSD 4.6-RELEASE. By that time,
the long process of organising a release, of coordinating the
developers, of fixing bugs, and finally rolling the CDROM iso
images had finished. The release engineers could not restart the
whole thing, which lasted well over a month, just because a few
packages happened to be found buggy a few days after the release.
Programs are found to be flawed every single day. Bugs are fixed
constantly. Security announcements are sent out right after any
important thing is found. The development of FreeBSD goes on.
Do you want to help? Then, by all means do. Maybe next time a
bug is found, you can hunt it down and kill the damned thing
before the release is out :)
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