From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 23 23:57:29 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22BDE37B416 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 23:57:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0373.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.199.118] helo=mindspring.com) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16Tel7-00072L-00; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 23:57:21 -0800 Message-ID: <3C4FBE5C.2AE8C65@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 23:57:16 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chip Cc: David Schultz , "f.johan.beisser" , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Installer (was "Re: ... RedHat ...") References: <20020123114658.A514@lpt.ens.fr> <20020123124025.A60889@HAL9000.wox.org> <3C4F5BEE.294FDCF5@mindspring.com> <20020123223104.SM01952@there> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org chip wrote: > > > I think FreeBSD's installer could be better, too, but it works in a > > > fairly straightforward manner as long as you don't have strange > > > hardware. > > > > FreeBSD's disk "slicing" and "partitioning" really sucks. > > > > It's pretty damn unforgiving, in fact. > > Grrr. > > Hope you all don't mind my .02 worth, I'm just a typical (?) end-user. Been > using FreeBSD less than 2 years, installed it maybe a dozen times or so, > always 'dangerously dedicated'. I've never had a problem understanding the > partitioning screens. I'm not a developer or programmer of any kind. I use > FBSD for my home workstation, also have a machine for the firewall, and a > third for a web/mysql server. I'm a developer and a programmer. I made the first patch to the VM system in 386BSD 0.1, wrote the first FAQ, and authoered the PatchKit, which got Jordan, Nate, and Rod roped into doing work on BSD based systems, and have generally been involved with BSD UNIX for about 20 years now, and *BSD from the start. Despite this, I've occasionally had problems with the FreeBSD install process. The original FreeBSD install, in fact, for 0.1 (later, 1.0, after it was renamed on the advice of Walunt Creek CDROM) required that, if you wished to use a geometry translating ESDI disk drive, you had to install NetBSD 0.8 to partition the disk successfully. > I know there are many other ways to set up partitions, with multiple OS's > etc, but it never was as difficult as I've read and been led to believe. > I suppose there's room for improvement, since the apparent goal of many OS's > is to dummy-down the install procedure so the complete computer-illiterate > can handle it, no questions asked. The actual goal is to make the installation process successful, and not fraught with peril. I spent most of last night getting FreeBSD installed and reinstalled on a disk. Part of the problem was Windows XP, part was the default setting for Partition Magic, with regard to XP operation, part of it was the Boot Magic FAq6 or FAT32 requirement, part of it was the @!$#!%! "System Recovery" CDROMs for Windows XP that used @!@#$%! Norton "Ghost", unlike the very friendly and useful Sony VAIO recovery CDROMs. But a lot of the pain came from the FreeBSD install process, as well. > It's been a few months since the last install (the last update was 4.4-r that > I installed), and I'll be installing 4.5-r soon as the iso is downloadable. > If it's of any interest, I'll be glad to post my install experiences and > general thoughts, pertaining to the partition section in particular. > Or, maybe I've just been 'lucky' and not had any problems? :-) > Regards, I think you've been "lucky". Part of it is the luck you made, with your very non-standard configuration, compared to that of most users, who install dual boot on their system (if they don't, then they install dedicated, but I would wager that this apprach is most common in large installations with a lot of machines, likely to copy whole disks to do the install, or use custom sysinstall scripts, in any case, as part of their manufacturing process). Frankly, I'm more concerned with the first time user's experience. Right now, the "cost" of installing FreeBSD is $70 for the Partition Magic program capable of resizing and relocating the Windows XP partition that comes preinstalled on most pre-built systems, plus the cost of installing FreeBSD (a CDROM purchase is likely, if you can find one in stores... Fry's doesn't have them any more, most likely because they have run out and can't get them, or that's what they say). In other words, the cost of installing it appears to be going up, which is not a good thing. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message