From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Dec 26 14:41:35 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54DD21353AB5 for ; Wed, 26 Dec 2018 14:41:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tundra@tundraware.com) Received: from oceanview.tundraware.com (oceanview.tundraware.com [45.55.60.57]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mailman.tundraware.com", Issuer "mailman.tundraware.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9EA9B85BE0 for ; Wed, 26 Dec 2018 14:41:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tundra@tundraware.com) Received: from [192.168.0.2] (ozzie.tundraware.com [75.145.138.73]) (authenticated bits=0) by oceanview.tundraware.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id wBQEbxMU016421 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 26 Dec 2018 08:38:00 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from tundra@tundraware.com) Subject: Re: why have csh as well as tcsh? To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <201812261421.wBQELETd006832@sdf.org> From: Tim Daneliuk Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=tundra@tundraware.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFlVgYoBEADIYD9W4mbKz5cEleX923hagDWkxyJl4kRiMJnz+dNAH71MItSdErMb0cFt CPxVncb4dR4R2ec0c0MjPcgVINNtbY1DMWsF7t31TKD8NG9ZjLqF6fZDFjgkRejqHytgjmCI UejrMSCf0UJsLtg+I3N1ZVVxd7ALj2bCvC/uc5S7j+YbNnhQvSoBbdFj/xOTjyOGGpk7WfB7 e42PGKq1NSgnI7tcY6HSaSH+LHeoc0yUpBb5A1ge+RhR1N9JTniEFe0qvOBi+HgUltEoxsk4 xb6IhpkDOTsxHvEg5h0ukfl8kG9cu+LrEBqwPaC8lPw3UmoTEAU+lXHanPE12JCF/54EtVCc rb4W0vqgGmLJzn5dRU/fWkar0FKPq4eoV0XMbGZKIC6pWQnMEsxEMpNvh7oefK6Kyn+LO+59 +sNYHbv1RImDJccmfHTOA6/jHdwOcnYy37U8UF7e+mGrwNs8GsMQx2AaQbR6VErakH3GBgft bMFOGQxiaRBkbzba7BZCQ060yhiC3/Mb/xHoVi7PBEmKig1SErTMA7Fh3CYPYIRDphNs6OSr tf9O4hbzUAsjbU3rxOfiWQjP3fSOM0KUBj4wpIWZlMrjAGnMIz2wHb211wsBiLqSaGiiO1LR 7RrcvbIFZvHQHiWe2tdRyuH3N/h7A316yoLfx+yy1gyP5weWsQARAQABtCRUaW0gRGFuZWxp dWsgPHR1bmRyYUB0dW5kcmF3YXJlLmNvbT6JAjcEEwEIACEFAllVgYoCGyMFCwkIBwIGFQgJ CgsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQdoOXo5EJFKntcA/9F9ags9Ik5C49N39iRq+yqBdn/Lr75rqv +Yg7JkjeVlwHpnQt1S6orTC7EaJc+AqY3szCEmhfuT0+E96Bw2k+G/XRnaedZ9SHSdImlmq0 RmOFpWLr67ScvlA9YG1tyR+QYraEFqK5EB6qhOWRJoz1BYtAAntK9b9gUTXt/277sT7lAWaj oPi4CDd4DofHc4E9VRsniMQNMLCWqc/ygAK07cWbK2Rh90tS2C4nK6OHFkNkK94zDilfxod1 NBFTUPPYfEU2CSa3eLlpfhYY3/2X7zNvmmCt+chHUnAhQLhldQ3WlqmTKP+ZK9LX002/bY1O M8Zk76WyA/A3EfsIUbnXBQvFyjwX6W4QEytlZWtp/yRIe64JOa3dZ8rkhragb2N4VgVLBVe3 jtZgfQ72pHrfNk/T0uT+hjFqInvIYiXkhxB2GiD7Ga28VuXojTmeoaW3GKcvoVxONSju7WzD XgyxWRmNpd5uifJcC3YU3tNNAosnQ0/5FW4wkducSEVwwqnAiSMQEMDDa/e6oP6GyOzes5SV LTNCRYdHWVKbxjetYU4SKm5RdLx9XuJo0qL9vO97mCNwdNkTM7gO2ycQ49qUiGbCZJOh2gpP ZRFrpJDxbloosAfOEB6IYjhb38u6jvbScJKK3bWA+a8TK4SrQpdRd1cAnW9sA8jCTV8ejZq0 CHm5Ag0EWVWBigEQAJYuihAOOOe/kAn045Ayn+3is3S+6eV4IAgL6lJhoChkgUJJuFoRX9BY rd35z29+q2/UCoProzd4Mk66wXeWv6n4s5R79OUzjgMLCTVlVaMy4gjPL9NRDwMt7KYRF56g mnoKZwfPDi/oJ5toPPboW94FrMwonqbdqYM2Pyi/HPMe4e396WQ4TaA1CdhyzKHoFSpkGcjX zIQ5yQ5aaGS7wonRu/pg15dbu+8QOgxRNFa0bO+ntz/30u+VmxFqFVbExjuy3Or8fSBhJgx4 cfyrrunKLclpZ/52VeK3l53yWYpR8RaTZfzpu8Ih+ijAY4XLO5F8P1T6sEviMaTY2F0sbFRx ZJXsgFpiKeWPHUn7/LX7qcoFJYoFqG6b3n5km+qy39x6lMgJDuxKpeN6lYj//LB6xVzn0JI+ 4ZHPrEkFqxu8VkL7deCPTI67ZJik18jXjTH9sha1YBvgvxIPFMA7ZwXX2AwNu7PzdcCpWarS usOAHbjQBUsQ+ZPpI1oeFnsCPZ+8/mMcTjVRZyJxOPs3KnXZv2cXNuaa7lwkWS366gHzQI7O l6WdC8TyNjiOzR654cL8BgYQ/xNSW1vTXqPWSRU8/b/5IueY2tQJh0CKIvfoP0rk8976wa1R 8SRi08mwHX7+F5oSeXLRNHicQGpS1f0DywdRcQ0MFHyq/CV4dTltABEBAAGJAh8EGAEIAAkF AllVgYoCGwwACgkQdoOXo5EJFKkDNw//c8nailIVOV72l7Lze+2AuK9MYUCFb1i4qI1WTnG0 OHQlCAltPhdwZPAozJw/eNqIcuWQh8rZspve9ipj589wLSsVyaFRsuYXTiYZ9RlRsnJYa36h 2JML3ZGrRsSxaUEAggbiOKbwmw27JuOIPmC3Gln4tJuZ+nw6cfCgMI45bIzinVanxHwPLeLp BZKpaEYzAwtBykUfAXn3jDwrI95UlMJvhHDFuRgvb6uSyJIqmp5aR/BjnlSdEwICyWpRAVSt yqZeBMeHbCr1B97PIRzk/q0eHm9T+AoiZWwz1iVGGgkYdAaCfs2PBlNHmRm93cfgoEcaGvNb RbTXOe28niMJeYMQsnjOTy5AQIrhVKeP5E+qVs/oPK/inmLiTbjZcnrO2wR+uxpPGgmR6M/3 p8qyRdaOvT87HZXO+Wr+r9A4UnwhCPsfELwPlEo+TJQ/oE71Mlkx/ddQCWELcHjXrQF9YbzA Ml7g0zTkgHysh4DNkV5iYteOcmCwsWdOwn0H0yZfz6weyr8nEdPngyOjFNKMIpcTbeg8866c GxXAJj46dub4VdVwfvMRHfmmRJkjdId7YHWMgz2Kf7S7KPCROLis7WjlOdSS0q2m/7qy9WL/ ZW50YLS8ZZLMrnari5JxCyJX+8n6ZASo2AA93iTbKmYegK2LDwW1QLU1iAF3GyGOnSE= Message-ID: <7fbbf871-5e22-b589-0f0d-5b2b89da2a34@tundraware.com> Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2018 08:37:54 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <201812261421.wBQELETd006832@sdf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.2 (oceanview.tundraware.com [45.55.60.57]); Wed, 26 Dec 2018 08:38:00 -0600 (CST) X-TundraWare-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-TundraWare-MailScanner-ID: wBQEbxMU016421 X-TundraWare-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-TundraWare-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam (whitelisted), SpamAssassin (not cached, timed out) X-TundraWare-MailScanner-From: tundra@tundraware.com X-Spam-Status: No X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 9EA9B85BE0 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of tundra@tundraware.com designates 45.55.60.57 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=tundra@tundraware.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.26 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.04)[0.045,0]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[oceanview.tundraware.com]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[tundraware.com]; IP_SCORE(-1.00)[ip: (-5.42), ipnet: 45.55.32.0/19(-2.71), asn: 14061(3.19), country: US(-0.08)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:14061, ipnet:45.55.32.0/19, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2018 14:41:35 -0000 On 12/26/18 8:21 AM, iam@sdf.org wrote: > what's the reason to have two options for shells > during the installation when the manual manages > to the same for both? > _______________________________________________ csh was the default/standard shell in BSD historically. Some years ago, tcsh was created as an extension to csh to add things like command line completion. (The man page has much to say about these.) Rather than ship two binaries, FreeBSD (and many other systems) ship tcsh with a second link to it called 'csh' for backward compatibility so that existing scripts that refer to csh will still work. It may also be the case (I don't know, I have not tested this) that the binary behaves differently if it is started as csh rather than tcsh to act more like "old" csh. Like I said, I've not actually checked this. Incidentally, many Linux distros do the same thing with bash and sh. IIRC bash *does* "downshift" to only old behaviors when started sh. HTH, ----------------------------------------------------------------------------Tim Daneliuk tundra@tundraware.comPGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/