From owner-freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Thu Dec 21 12:03:06 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-x11@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11C00E92157 for ; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 12:03:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tommi.pernila@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qt0-x230.google.com (mail-qt0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BC767637DA; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 12:03:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tommi.pernila@gmail.com) Received: by mail-qt0-x230.google.com with SMTP id u10so32094317qtg.2; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 04:03:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=e2FzuJ5cbhm4EyL2PBow1rqg6fw48rYV7TuxoEM+T0s=; b=YhkkRD8p0LLNmlZ6eUE/ucs9TRI5JBgRfBwsYOlPcNfo0fNfvAL/3gEEq/V46HqIdY c2jj3uh4nFGn0nh1c3ryF93/fE7B8+Ori70zL9z56a6eAgd0JWnmm3rLVUEbv58pPyV5 MjWo61+xnN+zB33MlU0qUMHyeZZwSlFXujF5CQcw0eL4c4gYgy6S59NP/TMv/w/e9nfq I1LVzcacuMbW3F+OFoMpQeOKlWqeT4yE0Kv15KFOU9sA8mB09g6x3Nbq9ztpalRs5vYu NcGQ9XMPUwRdvKLUugTs1AtZuy0Kb84kOsvyeYeg927BXu/QnUFk7Q6bPp8XA97AsPLf sH8A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=e2FzuJ5cbhm4EyL2PBow1rqg6fw48rYV7TuxoEM+T0s=; b=BHgDN8kwGbCjTjXKmDTlgPS70zFoq0GfXMsAyEUJwSqnVwAqnD4CDa/6+lWKm6dyOM j0Sd+M0nm49+pYhwCyfRSqSsOAN7k25y2ickK262zu3uwdo7IZcDry/VtVpbH0b67sGR omeAfOBKuEQz9x0MfdqJhKrkY08y7zI6awstYljxMm/15zrkdU+GRM5xNk5xXrUal6tv kTxoU1F9Ljwd0roCHV5XjjfSgcbKQfWRjqlG1cQOVE3MoyX7sZpNqaxmpEbzIYT0Fnvw 8cG+DTbJlqPxDA7gfWG/PdN0aGepWNV41u65q9hySkiOAUOylMTRsL6hiFadrQMn07Vz yMTQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mJ2Httj2l5ctlr8fpRGBNtrXFwecEm6QoEnPin4UmzQ1aDJZt/T ZD5KNp/H0Ze9HLCQKjdOKe2yntBY8GgMonimBydLag== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBosPldLxz0RLY4+q2PGK1YTmJqymkBjkNDTBjCcA23MhD5gupEixXxLTLlBKu5TJ1ZToQDD8nkNquzJPXlhOlts= X-Received: by 10.237.38.199 with SMTP id q65mr13617256qtd.3.1513857784220; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 04:03:04 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.200.27.41 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 04:03:02 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20171221113800.4b3acf10@kalimero.tijl.coosemans.org> References: <20171220132717.0eb5777d@ernst.home> <20171220180106.0224107c@kalimero.tijl.coosemans.org> <0cadf450-ce6b-f9bc-bdbd-99f89c4dec6f@unrelenting.technology> <20171221113800.4b3acf10@kalimero.tijl.coosemans.org> From: Tommi Pernila Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 14:03:02 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Vote: making wayland=on default (also posted to ports@) To: Tijl Coosemans Cc: Greg V , freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 12:03:06 -0000 On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 12:38 PM, Tijl Coosemans wrote: > On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 02:55:06 +0300 Greg V > wrote: > > On 12/20/2017 20:01, Tijl Coosemans wrote: > >> On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 12:53:20 +0000 Johannes Lundberg < > johalun0@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> Can you guarantee this? I seem to have mesa-libs stuff installed > >>>> even though I use the nvidia-driver. May be that pkg just > >>>> installed mesa-libs as a dependency for some other package. > >>>> > >>>> I'm using the AMD Ryzen which has no on-board graphics, so I'm > >>>> happily using my NVIDIA GPU and have absolutely no desire to > >>>> change because someone enables wayland by default. > >>> x11-toolkits/gtk30 will get some added dependencies: > >>> libwayland-client.so:graphics/wayland \ > >>> libwayland-egl.so:graphics/mesa-libs \ > >>> libxkbcommon.so:x11/libxkbcommon > >>> > >>> Is this a problem for Nvidia users? > >> The older nvidia drivers don't have libEGL, but if libwayland-egl.so > >> isn't actually used at runtime it's probably ok. > > It's not used when you're on X11, because X11 is not Wayland :) > > But is libEGL loaded into memory? > _______________________________________________ > Hi, Nvidia and Wayland is an issue currently. TL:DR; 1. Pure Wayland application with the binary Nvidia drivers do work, Currently normal desktop usage is quite limited. E.g. Browsers do not work correctly, X-applications do not work with XWayland on Nvidia's drivers 2. Nouveau driver isn't currently supported in FreeBSD. and here is the looong version 1. X-applications do not work with xWayland. Why? It is because XWayland uses GBM and it does not have support for Nvidia=E2= =80=99s proprietary driver. All opensource drivers are supporting GBM. GBM (Generic Buffer Management) is an API which provides a mechanism for allocating buffers for graphics rendering tied to Mesa. How did we get here? Nvidia first wanted to do an easy solution from their point-of-view and have everyone (meaning all window managers) write in support for the EGL streams. https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/wayland-devel/2017- January/032722.html Most developers were not really excited on this proposal. KDE developer: https://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2017/10/ plasmawayland-and-nvidia-2017-edition/ Sway developer: https://drewdevault.com/2017/10/26/Fuck-you-nvidia.html Nvidia then publicly apologize for the EGL stream proposal and also proposed a better way of solving the problem https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/mesa-dev/2017-November/177632.html Name for the new project initially was "Device Memory Allocator Project" Nvidia's newer tentative name is *Generic Device Memory Allocator* and *liballoc* as the allocator library name. The project has some prototype code in Github, but it hasn't seen much activity. https://github.com/cubanismo/allocator I'm hoping something will eventually come out from this not-so-ideal situation. 2. Only way to get Nvidia hardware running Wayland is currently with the Nouveau open source drivers. Nouveau drivers do not have a working port in FreeBSD, this was dropped from the ports tree in 2014 with this commit message: 2014-01-31 x11-drivers/xf86-video-nouveau: Not supported, missing kernel support. use the nvidia driver Wayland can fully work on FreeBSD with Nvidia hardware when: A/ Nouveau driver works on FreeBSD. I have no idea how difficult it would be to report Nouveau back to FreeBSD? or B/ Nvidia has their new Generic Device Memory Allocator project in a working state. This might take a long time, a year or two? Br, Tommi