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Date:      Sun, 29 Nov 1998 22:34:16 -0600
From:      Michael Maxwell <drwho@xnet.com>
To:        <freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject:   Re: Frustrated with bsd
Message-ID:  <19981129223416.A23715@drwho.xnet.com>
In-Reply-To: <000001be1c14$904de420$f6a08318@9zt3t.ce.mediaone.net>; from Ed Suchocki on Sun, Nov 29, 1998 at 09:50:25PM -0600
References:  <000001be1c14$904de420$f6a08318@9zt3t.ce.mediaone.net>

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On Sun, Nov 29, 1998 at 09:50:25PM -0600, Ed Suchocki wrote:
> I know that many people are using Free Bsd in their systems. I'm curious how
> these people have been able to figure where to start in using the system. I
> was expecting to find some insight here on the web but there is none to be
> found. How to download the software is as clear as mud. A person must be
> completely familiar with FTP and Free BSD before attempting to download and

You don't need to have a great deal of knowledge about the subject.  If
nothing else, you should just have an idea about what you plan to DO with
your system once you have it all installed.  Of course, this line of 
reasoning should apply to anything; why have it if you don't know what
to do with it?  Are you using it for:
  a) business/database server/etc...?
  b) Internet server?
  c) Desktop?
  d) Development?

> install it. If Free bsd is to get into the main stream there must be a
> better way for people to get useful and clear information as to how to
> install and download this system. The books that I have found are of no
> great help either. This operating system is only good to those who already
> know it!

Well, to a certain extent, this is true: Unix suffers from this problem.
You really need to read up on Unix and systems administration in general
before attempting to USE unix -- especially if you'll be the maintainer
of the system.  Unix is a very complex system (and its complexity is
really the beauty of it: it's entirely modular).

I, for one, can't say I want to SEE BSD become a "mainstream" OS.  If
BSD goes "mainstream", then the same thing that happened to Linux will
happen to BSD: it will become another "dummy" system.  Unix is for the
more sophisticated when it comes to computers -- you have to be willing
to LEARN how to use the system and how to expand it so it becomes useful
for YOU -- otherwise, you just have a couple hundred MB of programs
and utilities that you'll never use or even understand.

In general: Unix isn't a desktop OS (though this doesn't mean it can't
be used as one -- after all, Unix can do just about anything).

> I'm currently using MS Explorer 4.0 and I do not see any way of starting an
> ftp file transfer (no reference in help).
---end quoted text---

And this is a good example: MS shields the user from the system.  In
this case, you want to batch-download multiple files... let's see you
do that in IE (or Netscape for that matter).  The end result is complete
lack of productivity by using a system that is completely inflexible.

Ok, do you have an ISP that has <gasp> shell access?  If so, you can
login to that and use the fairly simple "ncftp" program (if they have it)
to login to ftp.freebsd.org and download all the files you need in one
command: "get *"


-- 
drwho @ xnet.com, BOFH  --  http://www.xnet.com/~drwho/
V xabj jub lbh ner.  V fnj jung lbh qvq.

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