From owner-freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Mon Jan 6 18:52:56 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ppc@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86A221E0617 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2020 18:52:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic301-22.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (sonic301-22.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.64.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47s4QH3ZG9z44L5 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2020 18:52:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) X-YMail-OSG: 2So4.r4VM1n5drjqnqpoIO4uJujE1j7eJT2fpsNm1yyKxmkLSiNWtHd3d08vuyZ JdoacRk5ZIsh9ac8QRNIHICuBri5x6JDeiG1JIMDtgAVHIJmfG3bTbcT4JRDcO4JgyQfvRGa7ODc YgYOO90nTK3SU1anpyffkuhRqtscLT5ICY7krG5bWEk0CZRftoeZRT2NZXU8PGlYb.12mqhZjjKf Kb2efI6rM1PHt4OfSkLXw.LgUM3JxM3.5UEXDKxWnYaIJOUmZNTrt7uv35Ibtj411OQ7lbk7VYn5 SSKxhX7ytkWGgirRdpemF61FccZvSXbKVPfG_TsfFr5HBSuQ5QFPr8gzsq.IWr87xcX9_JM3eSMa Cqe3UIoRPW3nasQJSnfRigV4jqq0it3NrLHL2tGUjQfBfFNIIeGqiq87xVPu1ame_cWNiQzTxFsA VltKR2PcLLtovkwXvuEWayPQZtRvdi.I8Z1pOCkGbV76bXZk6sTPTVXJXwPxAOhpGWkJ_OUgGhwZ kB.SSUe0rCxCn21TtZHiIi6ZcASs9spXvRPlA4n3fCe2OWssPr3xyO3kCltJ5aF6WVxtu6TLviJ7 ucjnWPNFsSTeyVJy8CWNr8LwrcHqbbaDXHDeksccqrpw2wiM6N2x0ZO96FFcJSAmoqOTwQr1HAFP 600gtX8ng1sgS3DB6L0x.SaoB4VGb6jGMkcSmYL13WXI4lsUEQMAPHs6i4ywavBzGe.tZ4F9h2rd eoIIY7Kqg.y0i7ds1nb5LKefauIinZWtBc8Ut.PCl9QU98iAqeScSKpxnZUVFZCFycoDCAp4kaUg kUajBQXCEfVAATXaOQpSyHVlfKx.hCEql1BdyEctOJQPH1OAjMyfI9aQh1j.IusNdMKnfVmH8X5W vuFihZHLi60V4PxYwKN0AovfHuWyvUaf4rAVD4YdHE_sOGjGLKHhL848ZUxMaKEi.02gCuNu7JVx 3q6m3eB1.CMPQrMmBbHn_amOpXosQi24uecVgZampfMT14fq9HDAAUS0JmIgo9xveXgakrYu6yoH .wNgdIblsNm5bS8MpbI3lYJjviLFcg8xdcIRZl3kYw5b3bp1FIJOWmF46hGvK_TTOhzPdC2zLVSo 2LCEgLOnT9olbECsLfhjEVjE_Tl7G8djTxEYJwlHvRffgFigQ57h_I0B2217TJy8wVSoIR14lx6s hcv0U9r5gVSm1pbrLjHzvEUqGFN1eYMgeHCaTQ1CQdOCoNu5gnXhezZzwZbevjmGWR2vrhVsqp1n sAFp4FHu0RJ8w_lmqZaxdMKC.Kuk03G_svklU1NK_lMVO_1MndEWlb30YOwbLeyyF2EHPUI8l0XW f6r6z7llPj_A9a6E_53CHzluCaO5G0Cv2_TUSmiHyjK.Z.jzmDP2R3xwd_F2ZeCl6SXFB9nlSbiY QcL8QV8D1B14Vc7F6mgJKQYRnlUMpNoKWl8Dy Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic301.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Mon, 6 Jan 2020 18:52:53 +0000 Received: by smtp417.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 6be1b9b4c275fb60b4687baf889558cb; Mon, 06 Jan 2020 18:52:50 +0000 (UTC) From: Mark Millard Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3608.40.2.2.4\)) Subject: Re: Gcc 4.2.1 to be removed before FreeBSD 13, a firm timeline Message-Id: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2020 10:52:50 -0800 Cc: Warner Losh , Ed Maste To: FreeBSD PowerPC ML X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.40.2.2.4) References: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47s4QH3ZG9z44L5 X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.64 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.41)[-0.410,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.73)[-0.730,0]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[148.64.137.98.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/21, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (3.62), ipnet: 98.137.64.0/21(0.88), asn: 36647(0.70), country: US(-0.05)]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the PowerPC List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2020 18:52:56 -0000 Warner Losh imp at bsdimp.com wrote on Mon Jan 6 06:56:06 UTC 2020 : > . . . > Second, all other platforms still have the original deadlines to sort out > the last lingering issues with the external toolchain and/or clang. mips is > a bit up in the air right now since both the external toolchain and clang > have issues (though different issues). powerpc 32-bit is sorting out issues > as well. arm 32-bit still needs libunwind from gcc. An end of May deadline > is ample time for works in progress to get to the point where everything > boots and runs sufficiently well to show the platforms are still viable. > . . . The reference to 32-bit powerpc surprised me, unless it is really powerpcspe specific. 32-bit FreeBSD is booting the 32-bit powerpc's that I have access to, all the way to multi-user: Old 32-bit PowerMacs (from 2 socket G4's to an old iMac G3.) It is still based on the old ld. [All at head -r356187 currently.] (I do not have access to a powerpcspe context.) True that using 32-bit FreeBSD to boot 64-bit PowerPCs that have bridge mode is not working, but I'd have expected that to be more of a nice-to-have instead of a tier 2 vs. tier 4 issue. Power-ISA-3/Power9 removed bridge mode, if I understand right. So progress on the "Can you buy a new one?" scale has started for bridge mode. May be there is some significant bridge mode booting use that I'm not imagining but that exists? (I've used it some but would not call it required.) I am able to put a 32-bit world in a 64-bit G5 directory tree and use it via poudriere to build 32-bit ports under 64-bit FreeBSD. And lib32 is working so I can also directly execute the 32-bit code under the 64-bit FreeBSD . (I've not tried any kyua passes yet, 64-bit or 32-bit.) Other things I've seen from Ed Maste left the impression that the old ld would not be a cause-tier-4 issue if lld does not make it in time for some reason. (Nice to delete old ld for 13, not required to?) Of course, it might be that 32-bit powerpc (non-spe) just fails the "Can you buy a new one?" test. But, if applied, that would mean that sorting anything out might still leave it tier 4. Are there could-cause-tier-4 types of problems that I'm not aware of for 32-bit powerpc (non-spe)? For me, tier-4 for the old 32-bit PowerMac's would just mean that I no longer use them, even when I could have access. My use is not something that would drive FreeBSD choices. But I'm still interested in what the choices will end up being and so am tracking. === Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com ( dsl-only.net went away in early 2018-Mar)