Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 21:00:21 +0200 From: Polytropon <freebsd@edvax.de> To: doug@safeport.com Cc: doug <doug@fledge.watson.org>, "Steve O'Hara-Smith" <steve@sohara.org>, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: stable vs releng Message-ID: <20180822210021.80650aa0.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.20.1808221335430.43782@fledge.watson.org> References: <010327df-876b-dc05-e9ed-130f3e8decb0@ifdnrg.com> <db8f5efe-4cb2-2d71-ea47-afbf7e4d7b4d@FreeBSD.org> <20180822154439.e388b74673a183639554ff5e@sohara.org> <alpine.BSF.2.20.1808221335430.43782@fledge.watson.org>
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On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 13:38:02 -0400 (EDT), doug wrote: > On Wed, 22 Aug 2018, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > > > On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 09:52:36 +0100 > > Matthew Seaman <matthew@FreeBSD.org> wrote: > > > >> So no removal of drivers, no > >> changes to ABIs, compatibility for 3rd party kernel modules across all > >> the kernels in the branch etc. Some of that I think we're getting > >> right, other bits we aren't doing so well with. > > > > <cough>nVidia</cough> > > > I do not understand. If the FreeBSD Desktop support model is a two story > outhouse, XORG has always been on the top floor. At least that was my > understanding. What am I missing? I think the main problem here is the switch from the normal text-oriented console subsystem sc to the graphics-oriented vt, which of course means more demands regarding "addressing the GPU". Additionally, X currently requires (!) the use of vt. So while X brings its own drivers, the OS now also needs to include certain aspects of "programming toward hardware". According to the vt page, there needs to be support for different brands of graphics cards: https://wiki.freebsd.org/Newcons Sure, this is completely out of concern if you just want to use the regular text mode - you switch back to sc (as vt has become the default), and everything works as it did for decades. But you cannot use X in that configuration anymore. That's why development on vt is ongoing, but not complete yet. But it is already more than "good enough" to be included as the default console subsystem, as it works in 99 % of the typical use cases. While you can switch screen sizes in vt (except to the one you want), it lacks certain features that did exist in sc reliably for many years. But when you use X, those are typically not needed, and X requires vt, so... those features won't come back. "Just use X!" is what solves any problems. ;-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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