From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 20 13:41:57 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C5CA37B404 for ; Tue, 20 May 2003 13:41:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77BA043F75 for ; Tue, 20 May 2003 13:41:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from esr@snark.thyrsus.com) Received: from snark.thyrsus.com (quintaped.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.1]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h4KKfskx029173; Tue, 20 May 2003 16:41:54 -0400 Received: from snark.thyrsus.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by snark.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h4KKWQ6o030656; Tue, 20 May 2003 16:32:26 -0400 Received: (from esr@localhost) by snark.thyrsus.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h4KKWPoY030654; Tue, 20 May 2003 16:32:25 -0400 Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 16:32:25 -0400 From: "Eric S. Raymond" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030520203225.GA30587@thyrsus.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy Subject: Re: Fwd: ESR/OSI's Unix/Linux-history-laden treatise on SCO vs. IBM X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 20:41:58 -0000 I've been forwarded some mail from the freebsd-chat list. Since I am trying to act as an advocate for the whole open-source community here, and not just Linux, a few comments and responses: Gary Swearingen: > It contains a few whoppers: > > "...the typical complexity of software [...] doubles every eighteen > months..." Alas, this is true. You only think it isn't because you live in Unixland, where we make steady (if not always successful) attenpts to hold down bloat. If you ever take a job coding C++ for a Windows shop you will learn -- painfully -- how bad it is out there. > a complaint that SCO slighted by saying he "introduced" Linux to the > world, presumably instead of ESR's absurd claim the Linus "invented" > it ("in 1991"!). Is there some other year you would propose? > the open-source community is "today's principal source of innovation > in software" I stand by that statement. > In his wrap-up, he gives us this copyleftic whopper: "We wrote our > Unix and Linux code as a gift and an expression of art, to be > enjoyed by our peers and used by others for all licit purposes both > non-profit and for-profit." (I dispute the phrase "all licit > purposes" as regards the Linux kernel and other "GNU is not Unix" > parts of "the Unix tradition".) This supposed "copyleftic whopper" is something I have observed in most of my peers since 1982, long before copyleft was invented. > A couple of minor problems: > He says Unix was invented in 1969, Linux in 1991 (as if they > were invented within one year.) This is within the normal usage of "invention" for technologies with a complex history. > He inappropriately refers to "Ronald McDonald's restaurants". That's been fixed. (Hey, *you* try writing under pressure!) > He is biased toward Linux and away from BSDs, saying: > "We in the open-source community (and our allies) are more than > competent to carry forward the Unix tradition we founded so many > years ago." > soon after saying: > "The technical leading edge of the Unix tradition had moved > elsewhere, notably to Linux." Had I meant "We in the *Linux* community", that's what I would have written. It says "open-source community" specifically to include you guys. Don't be paranoid; you make enemies that way. Remember that I'm writing for *lawyers*, not geeks. Like it or not, "Linux" is the open-source community's big visible brand name. In this context, talking about BSD would be falling off message. It's not that I'm biased against BSD, it's that I know when it's good tactics to ring the "Linux" bell that J. Random Lawyer will recognize and then shut the hell up about the other details. > I wish that he'd added to his several off-topic pot-shots, the fact that > none of the industry-making "Unix tradition" would have been happened > had courts developed their concept of software patents before the birth > of Unix. I specifically *refuse* to do that. We do not want to open up the can of worms that would be involved in proposing wholesale reform of IP law. That would be a great way to get slapped down and lose. -- Eric S. Raymond