From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 5 03:51:24 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEB2516A41F; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 03:51:24 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from smtp3.server.rpi.edu (smtp3.server.rpi.edu [128.113.2.3]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88A4543D1F; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 03:51:24 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.netel.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by smtp3.server.rpi.edu (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j553pL8u006761; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 23:51:23 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 23:51:20 -0400 To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG From: Garance A Drosihn Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-CanItPRO-Stream: default X-RPI-SA-Score: undef - spam-scanning disabled X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . canit . ca) on 128.113.2.3 Cc: Subject: NOTE: Upcoming changes to kinfo_proc X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 03:51:25 -0000 With the code-freeze for major changes to the 6.x-current branch approaching rapidly, there's some changes that I plan to make to 'struct kinfo_proc' in sys/sys/user.h. This is the structure used to communicate process-specific info between the kernel and commands like 'ps', 'top', and 'w'. All I want to do is fix some lost-space problems which came up due to mistakes adding variables with MD-types (long, pointers). I can only do that by changing the size of the struct, and as long as I'm doing that I am also going to add more spare room for future changes. I have tried to minimize the disruption in the change, but when I commit it people are going to have to recompile the entire base system (and possibly a few ports?) the next time they compile a kernel. My intent is to commit a change to kinfo_proc before next Friday, June 10th. The change I have right now is minimally-disruptive, but I might go for a more disruptive change (one which moves more fields around) if that seems like a better idea. As long as I'm doing that, does anyone else have some fields they were planning to add to kinfo_proc? I'm particularly interested in anything which might be an oddball type, since the struct will already have spare room for char's, int's, long's, and pointers. Right now my planned change looks like: Index: user.h =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/sys/user.h,v retrieving revision 1.65 diff -u -r1.65 user.h --- user.h 20 Mar 2005 10:35:22 -0000 1.65 +++ user.h 5 Jun 2005 03:44:35 -0000 @@ -60,48 +60,48 @@ /* * KERN_PROC subtype ops return arrays of selected proc structure entries: * - * When adding new fields to this structure, ALWAYS add them at the end - * and decrease the size of the spare field by the amount of space that - * you are adding. Byte aligned data should be added to the ki_sparestring - * space; other entries should be added to the ki_spare space. Always - * verify that sizeof(struct kinfo_proc) == KINFO_PROC_SIZE when you are - * done. If you change the size of this structure, many programs will stop - * working! Once you have added the new field, you will need to add code - * to initialize it in two places: kern/kern_proc.c in the function - * fill_kinfo_proc and in lib/libkvm/kvm_proc.c in the function kvm_proclist. + * This struct includes several arrays of spare space, with different arrays + * for different standard C-types. When adding new variables to this struct, + * the space for byte-aligned data should be taken from the ki_sparestring, + * pointers from ki_spareptrs, word-aligned data from ki_spareints, and + * doubleword-aligned data from ki_sparelongs. Make sure the space for new + * variables come from the array which matches the size and alignment of + * those variables on ALL hardware platforms, and then adjust the appropriate + * KI_NSPARE_* value(s) to match. * - * KI_NSPARE is the number of spare-longs to define in the array at the - * end of kinfo_proc. It may need to be overridden on a platform-specific - * basis as new fields are added. + * Always verify that sizeof(struct kinfo_proc) == KINFO_PROC_SIZE on all + * platforms after you have added new variables. If you change the value + * of KINFO_PROC_SIZE, then many userland programs will stop working until + * they are recompiled! + * + * Once you have added the new field, you will need to add code to initialize + * it in two places: kern/kern_proc.c in the function fill_kinfo_proc and + * in lib/libkvm/kvm_proc.c in the function kvm_proclist. */ -#define KI_NSPARE 15 +#define KI_NSPARE_INT 14 +#define KI_NSPARE_LONG 15 +#define KI_NSPARE_PTR 7 #ifdef __alpha__ -#define KINFO_PROC_SIZE 912 +#define KINFO_PROC_SIZE 1024 #endif #ifdef __amd64__ -#define KINFO_PROC_SIZE 912 +#define KINFO_PROC_SIZE 1024 /* value has not been tested... */ #endif #ifdef __arm__ -#undef KI_NSPARE /* Fewer spare longs on this arch */ -#define KI_NSPARE 13 -#define KINFO_PROC_SIZE 648 +#define KINFO_PROC_SIZE 740 /* value has not been tested... */ #endif #ifdef __ia64__ -#define KINFO_PROC_SIZE 912 +#define KINFO_PROC_SIZE 1024 #endif #ifdef __i386__ -#undef KI_NSPARE /* Fewer spare longs on this arch */ -#define KI_NSPARE 13 -#define KINFO_PROC_SIZE 648 +#define KINFO_PROC_SIZE 740 #endif #ifdef __powerpc__ -#undef KI_NSPARE /* Fewer spare longs on this arch */ -#define KI_NSPARE 14 -#define KINFO_PROC_SIZE 656 +#define KINFO_PROC_SIZE 744 #endif #ifdef __sparc64__ -#define KINFO_PROC_SIZE 912 +#define KINFO_PROC_SIZE 1024 #endif #ifndef KINFO_PROC_SIZE #error "Unknown architecture" @@ -180,7 +180,7 @@ char ki_sparestrings[68]; /* spare string space */ struct rusage ki_rusage; /* process rusage statistics */ long ki_sflag; /* PS_* flags */ - struct priority ki_pri; /* process priority */ + long ki_spare_long1; /* unused (old location for ki_pri) */ long ki_tdflags; /* XXXKSE kthread flag */ struct pcb *ki_pcb; /* kernel virtual addr of pcb */ void *ki_kstack; /* kernel virtual addr of stack */ @@ -189,9 +189,16 @@ lwpid_t ki_tid; /* XXXKSE thread id */ int ki_numthreads; /* XXXKSE number of threads in total */ void *ki_udata; /* User convenience pointer */ + void *ki_spareptrs[KI_NSPARE_PTR]; /* spare room for growth */ + struct priority ki_pri; /* process priority */ int ki_jid; /* Process jail ID */ - int ki_spare_int1; /* unused (just here for alignment) */ - long ki_spare[KI_NSPARE]; /* spare room for later growth */ + /* + * When adding new variables, put new int's in front of ki_spareints, + * and new longs at the end of ki_sparelongs. That way the spare + * room of both arrays will remain a contiguous area. + */ + int ki_spareints[KI_NSPARE_INT]; /* spare room for growth */ + long ki_sparelongs[KI_NSPARE_LONG]; /* spare room for growth */ }; void fill_kinfo_proc(struct proc *, struct kinfo_proc *); -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@gilead.netel.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 8 07:48:32 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B226316A41F for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 07:48:32 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 410D743D1F for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 07:48:32 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A20360F3 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 09:48:27 +0200 (CEST) Received: from xps.des.no (des.no [80.203.228.37]) by tim.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56D8C60F2 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 09:48:27 +0200 (CEST) Received: by xps.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 47F4333C3B; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 09:48:27 +0200 (CEST) To: arch@freebsd.org From: des@des.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?=) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 09:48:27 +0200 Message-ID: <864qc9mgqc.fsf@xps.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110002 (No Gnus v0.2) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on tim.des.no X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.1 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.2 Cc: Subject: Retiring static libpam support X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 07:48:32 -0000 Currently, libpam is built both dynamically (with modules in separate files which it dlopen()s, like everybody else does) and statically (with the modules compiled-in). This is a major headache, because the static modules need to be built before the static library, but the dynamic library needs to be built before the dynamic modules, so we have quite a bit of magic (thanks ru!) to build libpam in two passes. There's also quite a bit of highly non-portable magic in OpenPAM to support static linkage. The funny thing, though, is that nothing in our tree acutally uses the static libpam (unless you have NO_SHARED=3D in make.conf). Therefore, I'd like to remove the ability to build a static libpam altogether, unless someone can come up with a very good reason not to. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 8 10:21:30 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F08F716A41C for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 10:21:30 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ru@ip.net.ua) Received: from tigra.ip.net.ua (tigra.ip.net.ua [82.193.96.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46C3A43D49 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 10:21:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ru@ip.net.ua) Received: from localhost (rocky.ip.net.ua [82.193.96.2]) by tigra.ip.net.ua (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j58ALR2f069077; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 13:21:27 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from ru@ip.net.ua) Received: from tigra.ip.net.ua ([82.193.96.10]) by localhost (rocky.ipnet [82.193.96.2]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 29666-04; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 13:21:26 +0300 (EEST) Received: from heffalump.ip.net.ua (heffalump.ip.net.ua [82.193.96.213]) by tigra.ip.net.ua (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j58ALQFc069073 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 13:21:26 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from ru@ip.net.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by heffalump.ip.net.ua (8.13.3/8.13.3) id j58ALrkL080447; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 13:21:53 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from ru) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 13:21:53 +0300 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav Message-ID: <20050608102153.GA80141@ip.net.ua> References: <864qc9mgqc.fsf@xps.des.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="G4iJoqBmSsgzjUCe" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <864qc9mgqc.fsf@xps.des.no> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at ip.net.ua Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Retiring static libpam support X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 10:21:31 -0000 --G4iJoqBmSsgzjUCe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jun 08, 2005 at 09:48:27AM +0200, Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav wrote: > Currently, libpam is built both dynamically (with modules in separate > files which it dlopen()s, like everybody else does) and statically > (with the modules compiled-in). This is a major headache, because the > static modules need to be built before the static library, but the > dynamic library needs to be built before the dynamic modules, so we > have quite a bit of magic (thanks ru!) to build libpam in two passes. > There's also quite a bit of highly non-portable magic in OpenPAM to > support static linkage. >=20 > The funny thing, though, is that nothing in our tree acutally uses the > static libpam (unless you have NO_SHARED=3D in make.conf). Therefore, > I'd like to remove the ability to build a static libpam altogether, > unless someone can come up with a very good reason not to. >=20 I give a strong "yes" vote. Cheers, --=20 Ruslan Ermilov ru@FreeBSD.org FreeBSD committer --G4iJoqBmSsgzjUCe Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFCpsbBqRfpzJluFF4RAns1AJ9WLOW0Kum81YDWNAjTgyqrTKpxjQCfeRwY bJvb2h+u4Pul27jeJNpiIEA= =Owbr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --G4iJoqBmSsgzjUCe-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 8 16:15:08 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D821616A41C for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 16:15:08 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mark@grondar.org) Received: from storm.uk.FreeBSD.org (storm.uk.FreeBSD.org [194.242.157.42]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4896043D1F for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 16:15:08 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mark@grondar.org) Received: from storm.uk.FreeBSD.org (uucp@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by storm.uk.FreeBSD.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58GF5rN029259; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 17:15:05 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.org) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by storm.uk.FreeBSD.org (8.13.3/8.12.11/Submit) with UUCP id j58GF3Rp029257; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 17:15:03 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.org) Received: from grondar.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grovel.grondar.org (8.13.3/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j58GDj9A033326; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 17:13:45 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.org) Message-Id: <200506081613.j58GDj9A033326@grovel.grondar.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.7.2 01/07/2005 with nmh-1.0.4 To: cc: ; From: Mark Murray In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 08 Jun 2005 13:21:53 +0300." <20050608102153.GA80141@ip.net.ua> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 17:13:45 +0100 Sender: mark@grondar.org Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Retiring static libpam support X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 16:15:09 -0000 Ruslan Ermilov writes: > I give a strong "yes" vote. As do I. M -- Mark Murray iumop ap!sdn w,I idlaH From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 8 18:22:43 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F20BC16A41C for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 18:22:43 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from bigwoop.vicor-nb.com (bigwoop.vicor-nb.com [208.206.78.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB06343D4C for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 18:22:43 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from [208.206.78.97] (julian.vicor-nb.com [208.206.78.97]) by bigwoop.vicor-nb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 484B97A403; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 11:22:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <42A73773.1040508@elischer.org> Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 11:22:43 -0700 From: Julian Elischer User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.7.7) Gecko/20050423 X-Accept-Language: en, hu MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= References: <864qc9mgqc.fsf@xps.des.no> In-Reply-To: <864qc9mgqc.fsf@xps.des.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Retiring static libpam support X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 18:22:44 -0000 Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: >Currently, libpam is built both dynamically (with modules in separate >files which it dlopen()s, like everybody else does) and statically >(with the modules compiled-in). This is a major headache, because the >static modules need to be built before the static library, but the >dynamic library needs to be built before the dynamic modules, so we >have quite a bit of magic (thanks ru!) to build libpam in two passes. >There's also quite a bit of highly non-portable magic in OpenPAM to >support static linkage. > >The funny thing, though, is that nothing in our tree acutally uses the >static libpam (unless you have NO_SHARED= in make.conf). Therefore, >I'd like to remove the ability to build a static libpam altogether, >unless someone can come up with a very good reason not to. > > This may hurt me. I'll have to think about it.. We statically link our applications to reduce problems with dependencies and we've just been moving the authentication side of things over to PAM. I gues it would be ok if the basic binary is static and the PAM modules are loaded using dlopen. >DES > > From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 8 19:07:25 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD68816A41C; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 19:07:25 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jroberson@chesapeake.net) Received: from mail.chesapeake.net (chesapeake.net [208.142.252.6]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74BC843D4C; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 19:07:25 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jroberson@chesapeake.net) Received: from mail.chesapeake.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.chesapeake.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j58J7Bk9045984; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 15:07:11 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jroberson@chesapeake.net) Received: from localhost (jroberson@localhost) by mail.chesapeake.net (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) with ESMTP id j58J7BvG045975; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 15:07:11 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jroberson@chesapeake.net) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.chesapeake.net: jroberson owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 15:07:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeff Roberson To: "David O'Brien" In-Reply-To: <20050603074549.GA66709@dragon.NUXI.org> Message-ID: <20050608150529.I16943@mail.chesapeake.net> References: <000001c567e4$41dd3e30$144da8c0@rtxnetworks.local> <20050603074549.GA66709@dragon.NUXI.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Craig Rodrigues , james@freebsd.org, dumbbell@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [RFC] Move reiserfs code to src/sys/gnu/fs? X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 19:07:26 -0000 On Fri, 3 Jun 2005, David O'Brien wrote: > On Fri, Jun 03, 2005 at 03:30:50AM +0100, Craig Rodrigues wrote: > > Due to the increasing number of filesystems with GNU licenses > > being imported into the tree (Reiserfs was just imported, and > > sometime in the future, XFS may be imported), I suggest > > that a new directory be created: > > > > src/sys/gnu/fs > .. > > At some point, it would be nice to move ext2fs to > > src/sys/gnu/fs, but that would involve more work (a repo copy). > > > > What do people think? > > Keep ext2fs and reiserfs at the same place. > I don't see what's wrong with src/sys/gnu as that directory now contains > only 3 subdirs, so its not like its over flowing. But end the end I > don't really care as long as both these file systems live in the same > place (and not take months to make it so). I agree with David, I think it's too deep a directory structure. I doubt we'll ever have much gnu kernel code and this just makes it a little more painful to get around. If you want to cleanup the sys/ namespace, we really should have an arch directory as NetBSD does. Or we should move the remaining filesystems into fs/, which has not been completed. > > -- > -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org) > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 8 19:51:17 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11A2316A41C for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 19:51:17 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9D8943D1D for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 19:51:16 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8661D60F3; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 21:51:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from xps.des.no (des.no [80.203.228.37]) by tim.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C38260F2; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 21:51:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: by xps.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 0FA1833C3B; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 21:51:07 +0200 (CEST) To: Julian Elischer References: <864qc9mgqc.fsf@xps.des.no> <42A73773.1040508@elischer.org> From: des@des.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?=) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 21:51:07 +0200 In-Reply-To: <42A73773.1040508@elischer.org> (Julian Elischer's message of "Wed, 08 Jun 2005 11:22:43 -0700") Message-ID: <86ll5ksk44.fsf@xps.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110002 (No Gnus v0.2) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on tim.des.no X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.1 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.2 Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Retiring static libpam support X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 19:51:17 -0000 Julian Elischer writes: > I gues it would be ok if the basic binary is static and the PAM > modules are loaded using dlopen. You can't load dynamic objects from a static binary. It doesn't have a working dlopen() (since dlopen() is implemented by the run-time loader), and even if it did, there is no relocation table there to resolve dependencies in the dynamic object. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 8 20:18:32 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA7EE16A41C for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 20:18:32 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from antoine@madhouse.dreadbsd.org) Received: from barton.dreadbsd.org (madhouse.dreadbsd.org [82.67.196.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4275443D4C for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 20:18:31 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from antoine@madhouse.dreadbsd.org) Received: from barton.dreadbsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by barton.dreadbsd.org (8.13.4/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j58KIUdg030918 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 22:18:30 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from antoine@madhouse.dreadbsd.org) Received: (from antoine@localhost) by barton.dreadbsd.org (8.13.4/8.13.1/Submit) id j58KITDC030917; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 22:18:29 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from antoine) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 22:18:29 +0200 From: Antoine Brodin To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20050608221829.75c2de12.antoine.brodin@laposte.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 1.9.12 (GTK+ 2.6.7; i386-portbld-freebsd6.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: RFC: Stack saving/tracing functionality. X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 20:18:33 -0000 Hi, With Jeff@'s help, I implemented stack saving/tracing functionality. It allows you to save a stack (the program counters) and to manipulate it: print it to the console, print it to a sbuf, or print it to KTR. This can be used in lockmgr to simplify the API when DEBUG_LOCKS is defined. It can be useful for debugging. The code has only been tested on i386. It is available at http://bsd.miki.eu.org/~antoine/stack/stack-06-08b.diff To test it, patch your sources and compile a kernel with ddb. Then compile and kldload the test module: http://bsd.miki.eu.org/~antoine/stack/Makefile + http://bsd.miki.eu.org/~antoine/stack/testmod.c you can sysctl kern.teststack after you have kldloaded it too. It should print something like: %%% #0 0xc353287b at testmod_modevent+75 #1 0xc04c4841 at module_register_init+129 #2 0xc04be7d0 at linker_file_sysinit+144 #3 0xc04beb0a at linker_load_file+250 #4 0xc04c13c9 at linker_load_module+201 #5 0xc04bf74a at kldload+282 #6 0xc0621bb2 at syscall+658 #7 0xc061015f at Xint0x80_syscall+31 %%% You can also compile your kernel with ddb, KTR, KTR_COMPILE=(KTR_LOCK) and DEBUG_LOCKS and sysctl debug.do_stack_trace=1, sysctl debug.ktr.cpumask=255, sysctl debug.ktr.mask=8 and use ktrdump. It should produce traces like: %%% 316 687503258397 lockmgr(): lkp == 0xc424e1b4 (lk_wmesg == "ufs"), owner == 0xc32a6640, exclusivecount == 1, flags == 0x6, td == 0xc32a6640 317 687503258733 #0 0xc04c3ad3 0xc052eba5 0xc0635d78 0xc0538936 0xc053f153 0xc053f06f 318 687503258817 #1 0xc06274b2 0xc06159ef 0x0 0x0 0x0 0x0 319 687503259671 LOCK (sleep mutex) vnode_free_list r = 0 at /usr/src/sys/kern/vfs_subr.c:2752 %%% and you can do post processing with addr2line: %%% $ addr2line -f -e kernel.debug 0xc04c3ad3 0xc052eba5 0xc0635d78 \ 0xc0538936 0xc053f153 0xc053f06f lockmgr /usr/src/sys/kern/kern_lock.c:177 vop_stdunlock /usr/src/sys/kern/vfs_default.c:271 VOP_UNLOCK_APV /usr/obj/usr/src/sys/BARTONDBG/vnode_if.c:1692 vput /usr/src/sys/kern/vfs_subr.c:1974 kern_lstat /usr/src/sys/kern/vfs_syscalls.c:2126 lstat /usr/src/sys/kern/vfs_syscalls.c:2104 %%% Known problems: . On alpha a stack_save should be expensive since it uses a db_search_symbol/db_symbol_values for each function in the stack. . On ia64 the code hasn't been written yet, I don't know if libuwx is reentrant and if it can sleep. Another question: Since the stack saving/tracing functionality depends on ddb, should kern/subr_stack.c be moved to ddb/stack.c and sys/stack.h to ddb/stack.h? Could you review/comment/test it? Cheers, Antoine From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 8 20:20:22 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED17E16A41C for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 20:20:22 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from bigwoop.vicor-nb.com (bigwoop.vicor-nb.com [208.206.78.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62A0343D60 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 20:20:20 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from [208.206.78.97] (julian.vicor-nb.com [208.206.78.97]) by bigwoop.vicor-nb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9227D7A424; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 13:20:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <42A75303.2090203@elischer.org> Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 13:20:19 -0700 From: Julian Elischer User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.7.7) Gecko/20050423 X-Accept-Language: en, hu MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= References: <864qc9mgqc.fsf@xps.des.no> <42A73773.1040508@elischer.org> <86ll5ksk44.fsf@xps.des.no> In-Reply-To: <86ll5ksk44.fsf@xps.des.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Retiring static libpam support X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 20:20:23 -0000 Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: >Julian Elischer writes: > > >>I gues it would be ok if the basic binary is static and the PAM >>modules are loaded using dlopen. >> >> > >You can't load dynamic objects from a static binary. It doesn't have >a working dlopen() (since dlopen() is implemented by the run-time >loader), and even if it did, there is no relocation table there to >resolve dependencies in the dynamic object. > > so basically that would screw us. >DES > > From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 8 20:31:13 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEB7716A41C for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 20:31:13 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from bigwoop.vicor-nb.com (bigwoop.vicor-nb.com [208.206.78.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD27643D48 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 20:31:13 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from [208.206.78.97] (julian.vicor-nb.com [208.206.78.97]) by bigwoop.vicor-nb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15C8E7A423; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 13:31:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <42A75591.7080502@elischer.org> Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 13:31:13 -0700 From: Julian Elischer User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.7.7) Gecko/20050423 X-Accept-Language: en, hu MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Julian Elischer References: <864qc9mgqc.fsf@xps.des.no> <42A73773.1040508@elischer.org> <86ll5ksk44.fsf@xps.des.no> <42A75303.2090203@elischer.org> In-Reply-To: <42A75303.2090203@elischer.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= , arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Retiring static libpam support X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 20:31:14 -0000 adding more to my revious mail.. Julian Elischer wrote: > > > Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > >> Julian Elischer writes: >> >> >>> I gues it would be ok if the basic binary is static and the PAM >>> modules are loaded using dlopen. >>> >> >> >> You can't load dynamic objects from a static binary. It doesn't have >> a working dlopen() (since dlopen() is implemented by the run-time >> loader), and even if it did, there is no relocation table there to >> resolve dependencies in the dynamic object. >> >> > > so basically that would screw us. Or force us to abandon static linking of apps, which might be an OK decision, but basically I think it's kind of the thin edge of the wedge for fully desupporting all static binaries. if nothing that does authentication can be static then there is no such thing any more as a fully static system and one might as well just not bother. > >> DES >> >> > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 8 20:43:05 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61A0816A41C for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 20:43:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jroberson@chesapeake.net) Received: from mail.chesapeake.net (chesapeake.net [208.142.252.6]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC7C943D1D for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 20:43:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jroberson@chesapeake.net) Received: from mail.chesapeake.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.chesapeake.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j58Kh3k9082317 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 16:43:03 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jroberson@chesapeake.net) Received: from localhost (jroberson@localhost) by mail.chesapeake.net (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) with ESMTP id j58Kh36r082312 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 16:43:03 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jroberson@chesapeake.net) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.chesapeake.net: jroberson owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 16:43:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeff Roberson To: arch@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20050608162637.U16943@mail.chesapeake.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Subject: simplify disksort, please review. X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 20:43:05 -0000 http://www.chesapeake.net/~jroberson/disksort.diff Our disksort algorithm used to be complicated by the BIO_ORDERED flag, which could cause us to make some exceptions in the sorting. When the ordered support was removed we never simplified the algorithm. The patch above gets rid of the switch point and associated logic. It's now a simple hinted insertion sort with a one way scan. Since it's a fairly central algorithm, I'd appreciate a review. Cheers, Jeff From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 8 20:50:47 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4162C16A424 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 20:50:47 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from rcoleman@criticalmagic.com) Received: from saturn.criticalmagic.com (saturn.criticalmagic.com [69.61.68.51]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 025EB43D1F for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 20:50:46 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from rcoleman@criticalmagic.com) Received: from [10.40.30.162] (delta.ciphertrust.com [216.235.158.34]) by saturn.criticalmagic.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA5E13BD10; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 16:50:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42A75A63.7030505@criticalmagic.com> Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 16:51:47 -0400 From: Richard Coleman Organization: Critical Magic User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (X11/20050502) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Julian Elischer References: <864qc9mgqc.fsf@xps.des.no> <42A73773.1040508@elischer.org> <86ll5ksk44.fsf@xps.des.no> <42A75303.2090203@elischer.org> <42A75591.7080502@elischer.org> In-Reply-To: <42A75591.7080502@elischer.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= , arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Retiring static libpam support X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 20:50:47 -0000 Julian Elischer wrote: > Or force us to abandon static linking of apps, > which might be an OK decision, but basically > I think it's kind of the thin edge of the wedge for fully desupporting > all static > binaries. if nothing that does authentication > can be static then there is no such thing any more as a fully static system > and one might as well just not bother. I think that has been the inevitable outcome (fully desupporting static binaries) all along. Richard Coleman rcoleman@criticalmagic.com From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 9 16:37:24 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DC1816A41C; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 16:37:24 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gad@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp3.server.rpi.edu (smtp3.server.rpi.edu [128.113.2.3]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D279F43D49; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 16:37:23 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gad@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.netel.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by smtp3.server.rpi.edu (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j59GbKGF010029; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 12:37:21 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20050609160316.GC16677@over-yonder.net> References: <200506090027.j590R2t0070899@repoman.freebsd.org> <20050609003619.GA10578@xor.obsecurity.org> <20050609100815.GB16677@over-yonder.net> <20050609160316.GC16677@over-yonder.net> Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 12:37:20 -0400 To: "Matthew D. Fuller" From: Garance A Drosehn Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-CanItPRO-Stream: default X-RPI-SA-Score: undef - spam-scanning disabled X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . canit . ca) on 128.113.2.3 Cc: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org, Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: Bug in #! processing - "pear broken on current" X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 16:37:24 -0000 [moved over from the thread: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/kern imgact_shell.c on the cvs-src mailing list...] At 11:03 AM -0500 6/9/05, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: >On Thu, Jun 09, 2005 at 12:00:17PM -0400 I heard the voice of >Garance A Drosehn, and lo! it spake thus: > > Matthew wrote: > > ] See also the "pear broken on current" thread on -current > > ] and -ports around last weekend. Of course, I don't know > > ] if pear is wrong in what it's trying to do, but the change > > ] does appear to throw it off. > > > > I'm also willing to write some more changes to sh/options.c, if > > that is the best place to fix the problems that these ports are > > running into. > >Well, I dunno what part of it is giving troubles (and I haven't seen >it myself, since I'm still on RELENG_5 for the moment; just keeping my >eyes open). It doesn't seem like a terribly esoteric line though: > >#!/usr/local/bin/php -n -q -dsafe_mode=0 -doutput_buffering=1 It is very likely that the problem which is being seen with this script is due to the change in parsing I committed on May 28th. Before the change, php would have been started up with: [0] -> /usr/local/bin/php [1] -> -n [2] -> -q [3] -> -dsafe_mode=0 [4] -> -doutput_buffering=1 [5] -> /usr/local/bin/name-of-script [6...] -> parameters specified by user and now php is being started with: [0] -> /usr/local/bin/php [1] -> -n -q -dsafe_mode=0 -doutput_buffering=1 [2] -> /usr/local/bin/name-of-script [3...] -> parameters specified by user Assuming 'php' does not know what to do when all those options are glommed together in a single argument, then the above script would not work right on any other operating systems either. The change I made on the 28th gets FreeBSD to work more like other OS's when it comes to parsing that #!-line in scripts. Changes to /bin/sh would not fix this, because /bin/sh is not involved in this situation. But the change I'm thinking of for /usr/bin/env could be used to fix this, once I write up that change... -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@gilead.netel.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@FreeBSD.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 9 16:55:48 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06C5716A41C for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 16:55:48 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from bde@zeta.org.au) Received: from mailout2.pacific.net.au (mailout2.pacific.net.au [61.8.0.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8937743D1F for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 16:55:47 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from bde@zeta.org.au) Received: from mailproxy2.pacific.net.au (mailproxy2.pacific.net.au [61.8.0.87]) by mailout2.pacific.net.au (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-1) with ESMTP id j59GtZQC011992; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 02:55:35 +1000 Received: from katana.zip.com.au (katana.zip.com.au [61.8.7.246]) by mailproxy2.pacific.net.au (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-1) with ESMTP id j59GtW2t008000; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 02:55:33 +1000 Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 02:55:33 +1000 (EST) From: Bruce Evans X-X-Sender: bde@delplex.bde.org To: Julian Elischer In-Reply-To: <42A73773.1040508@elischer.org> Message-ID: <20050610025325.J22796@delplex.bde.org> References: <864qc9mgqc.fsf@xps.des.no> <42A73773.1040508@elischer.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-268324364-1118336133=:22796" Cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= , arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Retiring static libpam support X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 16:55:48 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --0-268324364-1118336133=:22796 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE On Wed, 8 Jun 2005, Julian Elischer wrote: > Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav wrote: > >> Currently, libpam is built both dynamically (with modules in separate >> files which it dlopen()s, like everybody else does) and statically >> (with the modules compiled-in). This is a major headache, because the >> static modules need to be built before the static library, but the >> dynamic library needs to be built before the dynamic modules, so we >> have quite a bit of magic (thanks ru!) to build libpam in two passes. Actually, IIRC jdp did most of the work to support static linkage. ru just kept it working, unlike some maintainers (thanks ru :)). >> There's also quite a bit of highly non-portable magic in OpenPAM to >> support static linkage. >>=20 >> The funny thing, though, is that nothing in our tree acutally uses the >> static libpam (unless you have NO_SHARED=3D in make.conf). Therefore, I use it all the time. >> I'd like to remove the ability to build a static libpam altogether, >> unless someone can come up with a very good reason not to. > > This may hurt me. I'll have to think about it.. > > We statically link our applications to reduce problems with dependencies > and we've just been moving the authentication side of things over to PAM. This would hurt me if i ran -current. > I gues it would be ok if the basic binary is static and the PAM modules a= re=20 > loaded using dlopen. I think dlopen() still doesn't work right with static linkage. I don't miss any dynamically loaded PAM modules since I don't need them. Bruce --0-268324364-1118336133=:22796-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 9 19:30:10 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7F7D16A41C for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:30:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from pjd@darkness.comp.waw.pl) Received: from darkness.comp.waw.pl (darkness.comp.waw.pl [195.117.238.136]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53F2C43D48 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:30:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from pjd@darkness.comp.waw.pl) Received: by darkness.comp.waw.pl (Postfix, from userid 1009) id 69196ACAF4; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:30:08 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:30:08 +0200 From: Pawel Jakub Dawidek To: Jeff Roberson Message-ID: <20050609193008.GB837@darkness.comp.waw.pl> References: <20050608162637.U16943@mail.chesapeake.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="cNtNYsKpUFVU3qjo" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050608162637.U16943@mail.chesapeake.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2i X-PGP-Key-URL: http://people.freebsd.org/~pjd/pjd.asc X-OS: FreeBSD 5.2.1-RC2 i386 Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: simplify disksort, please review. X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 19:30:10 -0000 --cNtNYsKpUFVU3qjo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jun 08, 2005 at 04:43:03PM -0400, Jeff Roberson wrote: +> http://www.chesapeake.net/~jroberson/disksort.diff +>=20 +> Our disksort algorithm used to be complicated by the BIO_ORDERED flag, +> which could cause us to make some exceptions in the sorting. When the +> ordered support was removed we never simplified the algorithm. The patch +> above gets rid of the switch point and associated logic. It's now a +> simple hinted insertion sort with a one way scan. Since it's a fairly +> central algorithm, I'd appreciate a review. It is not related to you patch, but I think our disk sort is just too trivial. The one example of how the order can be broken (write(offset, size)): write(1024, 512) write(0, 2048) It'll be sorted to: write(0, 2048) write(1024, 512) because we're sorting only based on offset. AFAIR we now require from file system not to send next request to the same area until previous request is not finished, so we should be safe (for now). --=20 Pawel Jakub Dawidek http://www.wheel.pl pjd@FreeBSD.org http://www.FreeBSD.org FreeBSD committer Am I Evil? Yes, I Am! --cNtNYsKpUFVU3qjo Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFCqJjAForvXbEpPzQRAkXYAJ4q2xqM6jN7fqpy9ZcDVGIbMou9JgCcCAU0 QOCbUw9muIE5CelxY/fDxnc= =PNcu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --cNtNYsKpUFVU3qjo-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 9 19:32:26 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6BFA16A41C for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:32:26 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ru@ip.net.ua) Received: from tigra.ip.net.ua (tigra.ip.net.ua [82.193.96.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B50843D53 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:32:25 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ru@ip.net.ua) Received: from localhost (rocky.ip.net.ua [82.193.96.2]) by tigra.ip.net.ua (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j59JWIVa002013; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 22:32:18 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from ru@ip.net.ua) Received: from tigra.ip.net.ua ([82.193.96.10]) by localhost (rocky.ipnet [82.193.96.2]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 14869-11; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 22:32:17 +0300 (EEST) Received: from heffalump.ip.net.ua (heffalump.ip.net.ua [82.193.96.213]) by tigra.ip.net.ua (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j59JWHOt002010 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 9 Jun 2005 22:32:17 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from ru@ip.net.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by heffalump.ip.net.ua (8.13.3/8.13.3) id j59JWYct056735; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 22:32:34 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from ru) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 22:32:34 +0300 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: Bruce Evans Message-ID: <20050609193234.GF32656@ip.net.ua> References: <864qc9mgqc.fsf@xps.des.no> <42A73773.1040508@elischer.org> <20050610025325.J22796@delplex.bde.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="DO5DiztRLs659m5i" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050610025325.J22796@delplex.bde.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at ip.net.ua Cc: Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav , Julian Elischer , arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Retiring static libpam support X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 19:32:26 -0000 --DO5DiztRLs659m5i Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 02:55:33AM +1000, Bruce Evans wrote: > I think dlopen() still doesn't work right with static linkage. I don't > miss any dynamically loaded PAM modules since I don't need them. >=20 Ah, I keep forgetting this. If this is the case, I withdraw my "yes" vote. P.S. Thanks for the compliments. :-) What version of FreeBSD are you running now? Cheers, --=20 Ruslan Ermilov ru@FreeBSD.org FreeBSD committer --DO5DiztRLs659m5i Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFCqJlSqRfpzJluFF4RAt9DAJwOcXc8mS1mD4R1M8wdDtEsyn4XaACgnx7o mRg8etu49+l8hzYJBKbmWbA= =NufQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --DO5DiztRLs659m5i-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 9 19:42:24 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A16CC16A41C; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:42:24 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from pasmtp.tele.dk (pasmtp.tele.dk [193.162.159.95]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FE3843D55; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:42:23 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (0x535c0e2a.sgnxx1.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk [83.92.14.42]) by pasmtp.tele.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3D931EC319; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:42:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.13.4/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j59JgF7v009132; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:42:15 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Pawel Jakub Dawidek From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 09 Jun 2005 21:30:08 +0200." <20050609193008.GB837@darkness.comp.waw.pl> Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 21:42:15 +0200 Message-ID: <9131.1118346135@critter.freebsd.dk> Sender: phk@critter.freebsd.dk Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: simplify disksort, please review. X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 19:42:24 -0000 In message <20050609193008.GB837@darkness.comp.waw.pl>, Pawel Jakub Dawidek writes: >The one example of how the order can be broken (write(offset, size)): > > write(1024, 512) > write(0, 2048) If you issue these two requests just like that, you get no guarantee which order they get written in. It's not just disksort which might surprise you, tagged queuing and write caches may mess up your day as well. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 9 19:51:55 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D00FB16A41C for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:51:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from pasmtp.tele.dk (pasmtp.tele.dk [193.162.159.95]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83A8F43D49 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:51:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (0x535c0e2a.sgnxx1.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk [83.92.14.42]) by pasmtp.tele.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 796581EC323 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:51:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.13.4/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j59JplnE009262; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:51:47 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Antoine Brodin From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 08 Jun 2005 22:18:29 +0200." <20050608221829.75c2de12.antoine.brodin@laposte.net> Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 21:51:47 +0200 Message-ID: <9261.1118346707@critter.freebsd.dk> Sender: phk@critter.freebsd.dk Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: RFC: Stack saving/tracing functionality. X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 19:51:55 -0000 In message <20050608221829.75c2de12.antoine.brodin@laposte.net>, Antoine Brodin writes: >Hi, > > >With Jeff@'s help, I implemented stack saving/tracing functionality. Thankyou! >Another question: Since the stack saving/tracing functionality depends >on ddb, should kern/subr_stack.c be moved to ddb/stack.c and >sys/stack.h to ddb/stack.h? No. This code should be compiled in as standard so that any panic prints a stacktrace on the console, also for non-KDB kernels. A sysctl to enable grepping a backtrace from core-dumping processes would be wonderful as well. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 9 23:40:33 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B7CF16A41C for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 23:40:33 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mail27.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail27.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.29]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30F9043D49 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 23:40:33 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: (qmail 19301 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2005 23:40:32 -0000 Received: from server.baldwin.cx ([216.27.160.63]) (envelope-sender ) by mail27.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 9 Jun 2005 23:40:32 -0000 Received: from [10.2.245.235] ([206.13.39.65]) (authenticated bits=0) by server.baldwin.cx (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j59NeMqj065910 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:40:24 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <53d4293a37f280317d52338c2fc6fc6d@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: arch@FreeBSD.org From: John Baldwin Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 16:40:19 -0700 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.622) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.8 required=4.2 tests=ALL_TRUSTED autolearn=failed version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on server.baldwin.cx Cc: Subject: Death to toor X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 23:40:33 -0000 Is there any good reason to keep the toor account around nowadays? vipw has existed since 4.0BSD and chsh and friends have existed since 4.3BSD-Reno so I think that it's safe to say that folks are more than capable nowadays of changing root's default shell if desired. Also, '/bin/csh' and '/bin/sh' aren't very hard to type once you are logged in as root whatever the default shell may be. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve" = http://www.FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 10 05:33:07 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04C8C16A41C; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 05:33:07 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from smtp4.server.rpi.edu (smtp4.server.rpi.edu [128.113.2.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4A6843D1F; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 05:33:06 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.netel.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by smtp4.server.rpi.edu (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5A5X3j1014927; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 01:33:05 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 01:33:02 -0400 To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG From: Garance A Drosihn Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-CanItPRO-Stream: default X-RPI-SA-Score: undef - spam-scanning disabled X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . canit . ca) on 128.113.2.4 Cc: freebsd-standards@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Change the executing of a 0-byte file to be an error... X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 05:33:07 -0000 A few months ago, I had a system panic happen right in the middle of a 'installworld'. Right now I don't care about the panic itself (IIRC, it was a hardware problem), but there was one unexpected side-effect which caused me more trouble than the original panic. And all that trouble boils down to the following: If a file is empty and executable, that empty file can be executed without generating any error. The panic caused a few files in /usr/bin to end up as zero-byte executable files, but I didn't realize that. I ended up doing another buildworld, I think it was, and ended up digging myself into a deeper and deeper hole. The problem included things like makefile rules calling: somecmd | sort -blah | domore where the 'sort' command had turned into one of those zero-byte executable files. The basic result was that the more I tried to rebuild parts of the world, the more screwed up the system became. By the time I was done, I had to do a clean install from CD-ROM to get it back to working order. Can anyone think of a real-world problem that would come up if the system was changed so that executing a 0-byte file would cause an error? I read through a few likely pages in SUSv3, and it looked like the behavior for executing an 0-byte file is not explicitly defined. Of course, it might be that I was simply looking in the wrong part of the standard. It does seem like empty files are also executed without error on a few other OS's I tried, but I don't understand why that behavior would be desirable. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@gilead.netel.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 10 06:13:50 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0D0716A41C; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 06:13:50 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.village.org (berlin-qwest.village.org [168.103.84.175]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC8DB43D1F; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 06:13:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.13.3/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5A6CIFI043547; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 00:12:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 00:12:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20050610.001218.74707358.imp@bsdimp.com> To: drosih@rpi.edu From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-standards@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Change the executing of a 0-byte file to be an error... X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 06:13:50 -0000 > It does seem like empty files are also executed without error on a > few other OS's I tried, but I don't understand why that behavior > would be desirable. At one point, true was an empty file with the execute bit set. Warner From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 10 06:24:34 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5697E16A41F; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 06:24:34 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from neuhauser@sigpipe.cz) Received: from isis.sigpipe.cz (fw.sigpipe.cz [62.245.70.224]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C672F43D55; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 06:24:33 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from neuhauser@sigpipe.cz) Received: by isis.sigpipe.cz (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 390FF1F87BED; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:24:31 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:24:31 +0200 From: Roman Neuhauser To: Garance A Drosehn Message-ID: <20050610062431.GA78875@isis.sigpipe.cz> Mail-Followup-To: Garance A Drosehn , "Matthew D. Fuller" , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org, Kris Kennaway References: <200506090027.j590R2t0070899@repoman.freebsd.org> <20050609003619.GA10578@xor.obsecurity.org> <20050609100815.GB16677@over-yonder.net> <20050609160316.GC16677@over-yonder.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Cc: Kris Kennaway , freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org, "Matthew D. Fuller" , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Bug in #! processing - "pear broken on current" X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 06:24:34 -0000 # gad@FreeBSD.org / 2005-06-09 12:37:20 -0400: > [moved over from the thread: > Re: cvs commit: src/sys/kern imgact_shell.c > on the cvs-src mailing list...] > > At 11:03 AM -0500 6/9/05, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > > > >Well, I dunno what part of it is giving troubles (and I haven't seen > >it myself, since I'm still on RELENG_5 for the moment; just keeping my > >eyes open). It doesn't seem like a terribly esoteric line though: > > > >#!/usr/local/bin/php -n -q -dsafe_mode=0 -doutput_buffering=1 > > It is very likely that the problem which is being seen with this > script is due to the change in parsing I committed on May 28th. > Before the change, php would have been started up with: > > [0] -> /usr/local/bin/php > [1] -> -n > [2] -> -q > [3] -> -dsafe_mode=0 > [4] -> -doutput_buffering=1 > [5] -> /usr/local/bin/name-of-script > [6...] -> parameters specified by user > > and now php is being started with: > > [0] -> /usr/local/bin/php > [1] -> -n -q -dsafe_mode=0 -doutput_buffering=1 > [2] -> /usr/local/bin/name-of-script > [3...] -> parameters specified by user > > Assuming 'php' does not know what to do when all those options are > glommed together in a single argument, then the above script would > not work right on any other operating systems either. The change > I made on the 28th gets FreeBSD to work more like other OS's when > it comes to parsing that #!-line in scripts. The pear people have hacked around the other OS's limitations. This change makes FreeBSD lose one small but fine competitive advantage over other unix-like systems. Pity. -- How many Vietnam vets does it take to screw in a light bulb? You don't know, man. You don't KNOW. Cause you weren't THERE. http://bash.org/?255991 From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 10 07:27:27 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 259F316A41C; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 07:27:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB24D43D5C; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 07:27:26 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57B8260F3; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:27:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: from xps.des.no (des.no [80.203.228.37]) by tim.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E5FF60F2; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:27:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: by xps.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 2745433C3B; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:27:19 +0200 (CEST) To: Garance A Drosehn References: <200506090027.j590R2t0070899@repoman.freebsd.org> <20050609003619.GA10578@xor.obsecurity.org> <20050609100815.GB16677@over-yonder.net> <20050609160316.GC16677@over-yonder.net> <20050610062431.GA78875@isis.sigpipe.cz> From: des@des.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?=) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:27:19 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20050610062431.GA78875@isis.sigpipe.cz> (Roman Neuhauser's message of "Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:24:31 +0200") Message-ID: <86fyvq3c4o.fsf@xps.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110002 (No Gnus v0.2) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Learn: ham X-Spam-Score: -5.1/5.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on tim.des.no Cc: Kris Kennaway , freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org, "Matthew D. Fuller" , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Bug in #! processing - "pear broken on current" X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 07:27:27 -0000 Roman Neuhauser writes: > The pear people have hacked around the other OS's limitations. > > This change makes FreeBSD lose one small but fine competitive > advantage over other unix-like systems. Pity. Huh? Here's what pear looks like on Debian: #!/usr/bin/php4 -Cq des@cat ~% php -n -q -dsafe_mode=3D0 -doutput_buffering=3D1 foo.php hello, world! des@cat ~% ./foo.php Usage: php [options] [-f] [args...] php [options] -r [args...] php [options] [-- args...] -a Run interactively -c | Look for php.ini file in this directory -n No php.ini file will be used -d foo[=3Dbar] Define INI entry foo with value 'bar' -e Generate extended information for debugger/profiler -f Parse . -h This help -i PHP information -l Syntax check only (lint) -m Show compiled in modules -r Run PHP without using script tags -s Display colour syntax highlighted source. -v Version number -w Display source with stripped comments and whitespace. -z Load Zend extension . args... Arguments passed to script. Use -- args when first argum= ent starts with - or script is read from stdin DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 10 08:05:54 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B62716A41F; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:05:54 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jroberson@chesapeake.net) Received: from mail.chesapeake.net (chesapeake.net [208.142.252.6]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AACAB43D55; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:05:53 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jroberson@chesapeake.net) Received: from mail.chesapeake.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.chesapeake.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5A85rk9098570; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 04:05:53 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jroberson@chesapeake.net) Received: from localhost (jroberson@localhost) by mail.chesapeake.net (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) with ESMTP id j5A85qDC098566; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 04:05:52 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jroberson@chesapeake.net) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.chesapeake.net: jroberson owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 04:05:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeff Roberson To: Poul-Henning Kamp In-Reply-To: <9131.1118346135@critter.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: <20050610040302.S16943@mail.chesapeake.net> References: <9131.1118346135@critter.freebsd.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org, Pawel Jakub Dawidek Subject: Re: simplify disksort, please review. X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:05:54 -0000 On Thu, 9 Jun 2005, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message <20050609193008.GB837@darkness.comp.waw.pl>, Pawel Jakub Dawidek writes: > > >The one example of how the order can be broken (write(offset, size)): > > > > write(1024, 512) > > write(0, 2048) > > If you issue these two requests just like that, you get no guarantee > which order they get written in. > > It's not just disksort which might surprise you, tagged queuing and > write caches may mess up your day as well. Through the filesystem the buf will be locked until the first write completes. Truthfully, it's likely to be DELWRI, which means the second write will be a memcpy into the buffer. If you fsync'd between the two, the first could still be in the drive cache when the second comes down, but certainly the drive cache will remain coherent. Anyway, it's really not important to solve at the disk queue layer, because it's only an issue with raw devices, and it's very irregular to have multiple processes opening the same raw device to issue a lot of io of different sizes. > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 > phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 > FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe > Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. > From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 10 08:06:58 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6675B16A41C; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:06:58 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from flz@xbsd.org) Received: from smtp.xbsd.org (xbsd.org [82.233.2.192]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E566643D49; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:06:57 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from flz@xbsd.org) Received: from localhost (localhost.xbsd.org [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.xbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2B9511B9F; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:11:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp.xbsd.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (srv1.xbsd.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 63143-03; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:11:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.20.108] (ALagny-106-1-4-61.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr [80.14.230.61]) by smtp.xbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7DAB11BAB; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:11:42 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <20050610062431.GA78875@isis.sigpipe.cz> References: <200506090027.j590R2t0070899@repoman.freebsd.org> <20050609003619.GA10578@xor.obsecurity.org> <20050609100815.GB16677@over-yonder.net> <20050609160316.GC16677@over-yonder.net> <20050610062431.GA78875@isis.sigpipe.cz> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v730) X-Gpgmail-State: !signed Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Florent Thoumie Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:06:46 +0200 To: Roman Neuhauser X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.730) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at xbsd.org Cc: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org, "Matthew D. Fuller" , freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org, Garance A Drosehn , Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: Bug in #! processing - "pear broken on current" X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:06:58 -0000 On Jun 10, 2005, at 8:24 AM, Roman Neuhauser wrote: > # gad@FreeBSD.org / 2005-06-09 12:37:20 -0400: > >> [moved over from the thread: >> Re: cvs commit: src/sys/kern imgact_shell.c >> on the cvs-src mailing list...] >> >> At 11:03 AM -0500 6/9/05, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: >> >>> >>> Well, I dunno what part of it is giving troubles (and I haven't seen >>> it myself, since I'm still on RELENG_5 for the moment; just >>> keeping my >>> eyes open). It doesn't seem like a terribly esoteric line though: >>> >>> #!/usr/local/bin/php -n -q -dsafe_mode=0 -doutput_buffering=1 >>> >> >> It is very likely that the problem which is being seen with this >> script is due to the change in parsing I committed on May 28th. >> Before the change, php would have been started up with: >> >> [0] -> /usr/local/bin/php >> [1] -> -n >> [2] -> -q >> [3] -> -dsafe_mode=0 >> [4] -> -doutput_buffering=1 >> [5] -> /usr/local/bin/name-of-script >> [6...] -> parameters specified by user >> >> and now php is being started with: >> >> [0] -> /usr/local/bin/php >> [1] -> -n -q -dsafe_mode=0 -doutput_buffering=1 >> [2] -> /usr/local/bin/name-of-script >> [3...] -> parameters specified by user >> >> Assuming 'php' does not know what to do when all those options are >> glommed together in a single argument, then the above script would >> not work right on any other operating systems either. The change >> I made on the 28th gets FreeBSD to work more like other OS's when >> it comes to parsing that #!-line in scripts. >> > > The pear people have hacked around the other OS's limitations. > > This change makes FreeBSD lose one small but fine competitive > advantage over other unix-like systems. Pity. FreeBSD needed special handling, no it doesn't anymore. I'm not sure that's losing a *competitive* advantage. -- Florent Thoumie flz@xbsd.org From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 10 08:11:00 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D43C516A41C; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:11:00 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from pasmtp.tele.dk (pasmtp.tele.dk [193.162.159.95]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76A5343D55; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:11:00 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (0x535c0e2a.sgnxx1.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk [83.92.14.42]) by pasmtp.tele.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10F3E1EC361; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:10:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.13.4/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5A8Al16017438; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:10:47 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Jeff Roberson From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 10 Jun 2005 04:05:52 EDT." <20050610040302.S16943@mail.chesapeake.net> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:10:47 +0200 Message-ID: <17437.1118391047@critter.freebsd.dk> Sender: phk@critter.freebsd.dk Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org, Pawel Jakub Dawidek Subject: Re: simplify disksort, please review. X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:11:01 -0000 In message <20050610040302.S16943@mail.chesapeake.net>, Jeff Roberson writes: >On Thu, 9 Jun 2005, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > >> In message <20050609193008.GB837@darkness.comp.waw.pl>, Pawel Jakub Dawidek writes: >> >> >The one example of how the order can be broken (write(offset, size)): >> > >> > write(1024, 512) >> > write(0, 2048) >> >> If you issue these two requests just like that, you get no guarantee >> which order they get written in. >> >> It's not just disksort which might surprise you, tagged queuing and >> write caches may mess up your day as well. > >Anyway, it's really not important to solve at the disk queue layer, >because it's only an issue with raw devices, and it's very irregular to >have multiple processes opening the same raw device to issue a lot of io >of different sizes. It will not be solved at any level, because it would require the GEOM layer to either make all writes strictly synchronous, a total no-go, or keep very expensive housekeeping of which requests are outstanding so we can block conflicting writes etc. This is something that belongs 100% in the code issuing the I/O requests and if some of that code does something stupid, it looses and that is how it should be. Jeff is correct that the buffer-cache mostly will prevent people from shooting their feet off, but nothing prevents a GEOM class from making a fool of itself. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 10 09:06:11 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 683) id F1C5216A41F; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:06:10 +0000 (GMT) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:06:10 +0000 From: Eivind Eklund To: John Baldwin Message-ID: <20050610090610.GA30852@FreeBSD.org> References: <53d4293a37f280317d52338c2fc6fc6d@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <53d4293a37f280317d52338c2fc6fc6d@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Death to toor X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:06:11 -0000 On Thu, Jun 09, 2005 at 04:40:19PM -0700, John Baldwin wrote: > Is there any good reason to keep the toor account around nowadays? I support its death. Eivind. From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 10 09:14:10 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 706F716A41C; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:14:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from delphij@frontfree.net) Received: from tarsier.geekcn.org (tarsier.geekcn.org [210.51.165.229]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EB9143D53; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:14:09 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from delphij@frontfree.net) Received: from beastie.frontfree.net (unknown [219.239.99.7]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tarsier.geekcn.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8292EEB1D37; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:14:07 +0800 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost.frontfree.net [127.0.0.1]) by beastie.frontfree.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F9F413516B; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:14:02 +0800 (CST) Received: from beastie.frontfree.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (beastie.frontfree.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 45863-14; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:13:55 +0800 (CST) Received: from [10.217.12.87] (unknown [61.135.152.194]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by beastie.frontfree.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E2D8135167; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:13:54 +0800 (CST) From: Xin LI To: John Baldwin In-Reply-To: <53d4293a37f280317d52338c2fc6fc6d@FreeBSD.org> References: <53d4293a37f280317d52338c2fc6fc6d@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-gN2SIPd3ryzA37SjvMQ9" Organization: The FreeBSD Simplified Chinese Project Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:13:51 +0800 Message-Id: <1118394831.727.0.camel@spirit> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.2.3 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at frontfree.net Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Death to toor X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: delphij@delphij.net List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:14:10 -0000 --=-gN2SIPd3ryzA37SjvMQ9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =E5=9C=A8 2005-06-09=E5=9B=9B=E7=9A=84 16:40 -0700=EF=BC=8CJohn Baldwin=E5= =86=99=E9=81=93=EF=BC=9A > Is there any good reason to keep the toor account around nowadays? =20 > vipw has existed since 4.0BSD and chsh and friends have existed since=20 > 4.3BSD-Reno so I think that it's safe to say that folks are more than=20 > capable nowadays of changing root's default shell if desired. Also,=20 > '/bin/csh' and '/bin/sh' aren't very hard to type once you are logged=20 > in as root whatever the default shell may be. Seconded. Cheers, --=20 Xin LI http://www.delphij.net/ --=-gN2SIPd3ryzA37SjvMQ9 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQBCqVnP/cVsHxFZiIoRAhjJAJ9W95YVNLgo/7ywxDYyPsQfyE0fkwCdHX2U q/93/FimrCScLXlOF+bjGZw= =/rOI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-gN2SIPd3ryzA37SjvMQ9-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 10 09:17:30 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B48BC16A41C; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:17:30 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from setantae@submonkey.net) Received: from shrike.submonkey.net (cpc4-cdif3-6-1-cust116.cdif.cable.ntl.com [82.23.41.116]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2343943D4C; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:17:30 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from setantae@submonkey.net) Received: from setantae by shrike.submonkey.net with local (Exim 4.51 (FreeBSD)) id 1Dgfdp-000OGV-Cp; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:17:29 +0100 Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:17:29 +0100 From: Ceri Davies To: John Baldwin Message-ID: <20050610091729.GD14221@submonkey.net> Mail-Followup-To: Ceri Davies , John Baldwin , arch@FreeBSD.org References: <53d4293a37f280317d52338c2fc6fc6d@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="7ZyIFZfp2hFO8sP/" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <53d4293a37f280317d52338c2fc6fc6d@FreeBSD.org> X-PGP: finger ceri@FreeBSD.org User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Sender: Ceri Davies Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Death to toor X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:17:30 -0000 --7ZyIFZfp2hFO8sP/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jun 09, 2005 at 04:40:19PM -0700, John Baldwin wrote: > Is there any good reason to keep the toor account around nowadays? =20 > vipw has existed since 4.0BSD and chsh and friends have existed since=20 > 4.3BSD-Reno so I think that it's safe to say that folks are more than=20 > capable nowadays of changing root's default shell if desired. Also,=20 > '/bin/csh' and '/bin/sh' aren't very hard to type once you are logged=20 > in as root whatever the default shell may be. Agreed. The only strand of usefulness it may still have would be to make its shell a static one, but I don't see the need for that either. Ceri --=20 Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Einstein (attrib.) --7ZyIFZfp2hFO8sP/ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFCqVqpocfcwTS3JF8RAg2KAKCRevBW4vnEaOFx5b7iXN/D5XFqlQCfQr4Z Bzw2vFwliNN+k6ji/hnfMl0= =fNau -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --7ZyIFZfp2hFO8sP/-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 10 10:48:32 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE22816A41C; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:48:32 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from neuhauser@sigpipe.cz) Received: from isis.sigpipe.cz (fw.sigpipe.cz [62.245.70.224]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3103B43D62; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:48:30 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from neuhauser@sigpipe.cz) Received: by isis.sigpipe.cz (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 7CC601F87BEE; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:48:29 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:48:29 +0200 From: Roman Neuhauser To: Florent Thoumie Message-ID: <20050610104829.GA80719@isis.sigpipe.cz> Mail-Followup-To: Florent Thoumie , Garance A Drosehn , Kris Kennaway , freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org, "Matthew D. Fuller" , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org References: <200506090027.j590R2t0070899@repoman.freebsd.org> <20050609003619.GA10578@xor.obsecurity.org> <20050609100815.GB16677@over-yonder.net> <20050609160316.GC16677@over-yonder.net> <20050610062431.GA78875@isis.sigpipe.cz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Cc: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org, "Matthew D. Fuller" , freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org, Garance A Drosehn , Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: Bug in #! processing - "pear broken on current" X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:48:32 -0000 # flz@xbsd.org / 2005-06-10 10:06:46 +0200: > On Jun 10, 2005, at 8:24 AM, Roman Neuhauser wrote: > ># gad@FreeBSD.org / 2005-06-09 12:37:20 -0400: > >>and now php is being started with: > >> > >> [0] -> /usr/local/bin/php > >> [1] -> -n -q -dsafe_mode=0 -doutput_buffering=1 > >> [2] -> /usr/local/bin/name-of-script > >> [3...] -> parameters specified by user > >> > >>Assuming 'php' does not know what to do when all those options are > >>glommed together in a single argument, then the above script would > >>not work right on any other operating systems either. The change > >>I made on the 28th gets FreeBSD to work more like other OS's when > >>it comes to parsing that #!-line in scripts. > > > > The pear people have hacked around the other OS's limitations. > > > > This change makes FreeBSD lose one small but fine competitive > > advantage over other unix-like systems. Pity. > > FreeBSD needed special handling, no it doesn't anymore. > > I'm not sure that's losing a *competitive* advantage. The previous behavior in FreeBSD allowed me to use things on the shebang line that weren't possible in e. g. Linux, and I enjoyed it, because it saved me from various hacks. Aiming for the lowest common denominator means losing useful features. One reason to prefer FreeBSD less. -- How many Vietnam vets does it take to screw in a light bulb? You don't know, man. You don't KNOW. Cause you weren't THERE. http://bash.org/?255991 From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 10 11:11:05 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6788E16A41C; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:11:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from setantae@submonkey.net) Received: from shrike.submonkey.net (cpc4-cdif3-6-1-cust116.cdif.cable.ntl.com [82.23.41.116]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF69943D1F; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:11:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from setantae@submonkey.net) Received: from setantae by shrike.submonkey.net with local (Exim 4.51 (FreeBSD)) id 1DghPj-0001zo-Rg; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:11:03 +0100 Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:11:03 +0100 From: Ceri Davies To: Garance A Drosihn Message-ID: <20050610111103.GE14221@submonkey.net> Mail-Followup-To: Ceri Davies , Garance A Drosihn , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-standards@FreeBSD.ORG References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="YkNwngLRNOQA9swf" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-PGP: finger ceri@FreeBSD.org User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Sender: Ceri Davies Cc: freebsd-standards@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Change the executing of a 0-byte file to be an error... X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:11:05 -0000 --YkNwngLRNOQA9swf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 01:33:02AM -0400, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > A few months ago, I had a system panic happen right in the middle of > a 'installworld'. Right now I don't care about the panic itself > (IIRC, it was a hardware problem), but there was one unexpected > side-effect which caused me more trouble than the original panic. > And all that trouble boils down to the following: >=20 > If a file is empty and executable, that empty file can be > executed without generating any error. >=20 > The panic caused a few files in /usr/bin to end up as zero-byte > executable files, but I didn't realize that. I ended up doing > another buildworld, I think it was, and ended up digging myself > into a deeper and deeper hole. The problem included things like > makefile rules calling: >=20 > somecmd | sort -blah | domore >=20 > where the 'sort' command had turned into one of those zero-byte > executable files. The basic result was that the more I tried to > rebuild parts of the world, the more screwed up the system became. > By the time I was done, I had to do a clean install from CD-ROM > to get it back to working order. >=20 > Can anyone think of a real-world problem that would come up if the > system was changed so that executing a 0-byte file would cause an > error? I read through a few likely pages in SUSv3, and it looked > like the behavior for executing an 0-byte file is not explicitly > defined. Of course, it might be that I was simply looking in the > wrong part of the standard. >=20 > It does seem like empty files are also executed without error on a > few other OS's I tried, but I don't understand why that behavior > would be desirable. Are you sure? It seems to be a function of the shell more than anything; the transcript below does exactly the same on both FreeBSD 4-STABLE and Solaris 8: $ sh $ PS1=3D'sh$ ' sh$ touch empty ; chmod +x empty sh$ ./empty sh$ echo $? 0 sh$ PS1=3D'zsh$ ' zsh zsh$ zsh zsh$ ./empty zsh: exec format error: ./empty zsh$=20 Ceri --=20 Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Einstein (attrib.) --YkNwngLRNOQA9swf Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFCqXVHocfcwTS3JF8RAip2AJ9cIIilTOv8Z1rb8pUsTL1MZu3l3QCgkNgy ASHMulCVdnArBtAv05geFOk= =memd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --YkNwngLRNOQA9swf-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 10 11:28:59 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52BAA16A41C; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:28:59 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from neuhauser@sigpipe.cz) Received: from isis.sigpipe.cz (fw.sigpipe.cz [62.245.70.224]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E63A543D1F; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:28:58 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from neuhauser@sigpipe.cz) Received: by isis.sigpipe.cz (Postfix, from userid 1001) id DDFAA1F87BED; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:28:57 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:28:57 +0200 From: Roman Neuhauser To: Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav Message-ID: <20050610112857.GB80719@isis.sigpipe.cz> Mail-Followup-To: Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav , Garance A Drosehn , Kris Kennaway , freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org, "Matthew D. Fuller" , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org References: <200506090027.j590R2t0070899@repoman.freebsd.org> <20050609003619.GA10578@xor.obsecurity.org> <20050609100815.GB16677@over-yonder.net> <20050609160316.GC16677@over-yonder.net> <20050610062431.GA78875@isis.sigpipe.cz> <86fyvq3c4o.fsf@xps.des.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <86fyvq3c4o.fsf@xps.des.no> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Cc: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org, "Matthew D. Fuller" , freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org, Garance A Drosehn , Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: Bug in #! processing - "pear broken on current" X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:28:59 -0000 # des@des.no / 2005-06-10 09:27:19 +0200: > Roman Neuhauser writes: > > The pear people have hacked around the other OS's limitations. > > > > This change makes FreeBSD lose one small but fine competitive > > advantage over other unix-like systems. Pity. > > Huh? > > Here's what pear looks like on Debian: > #!/usr/bin/php4 -Cq > > SuSE uses a shell wrapper which ends in > exec $PHP -C -q $INCARG -d output_buffering=1 $INCDIR/pearcmd.php "$@" > > Fedora has a similar shell wrapper: > exec $PHP -C -q $INCARG -d output_buffering=1 $INCDIR/pearcmd.php "$@" > > so we're certainly not the only ones who need to modify pear. > > Take a look at this: > > des@cat ~% uname -a > Linux cat 2.6.8-24.14-default #1 Tue Mar 29 09:27:43 UTC 2005 i686 athlon i386 GNU/Linux That simply shows that all these *Linux* distros don't handle shebang lines well. -- How many Vietnam vets does it take to screw in a light bulb? You don't know, man. You don't KNOW. Cause you weren't THERE. http://bash.org/?255991 From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 10 11:56:24 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54C8816A44B; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:56:23 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from smtp4.server.rpi.edu (smtp4.server.rpi.edu [128.113.2.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E699343D49; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:56:22 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.netel.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by smtp4.server.rpi.edu (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5ABuKL7010070; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 07:56:21 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20050610111103.GE14221@submonkey.net> References: <20050610111103.GE14221@submonkey.net> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 07:56:19 -0400 To: Ceri Davies From: Garance A Drosihn Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-CanItPRO-Stream: default X-RPI-SA-Score: undef - spam-scanning disabled X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . canit . ca) on 128.113.2.4 Cc: freebsd-standards@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Change the executing of a 0-byte file to be an error... X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:56:24 -0000 At 12:11 PM +0100 6/10/05, Ceri Davies wrote: >On Fri, Jun 10, 2005, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > > >> If a file is empty and executable, that empty file can be > > executed without generating any error. > >Are you sure? It seems to be a function of the shell more than >anything; the transcript below does exactly the same on both >FreeBSD 4-STABLE and Solaris 8: > >$ sh >$ PS1='sh$ ' >sh$ touch empty ; chmod +x empty >sh$ ./empty >sh$ echo $? >0 >sh$ PS1='zsh$ ' zsh >zsh$ zsh >zsh$ ./empty >zsh: exec format error: ./empty >zsh$ Well, zsh can certainly add whatever processing it likes, but my main interest is what routines like 'exec()' will do with the file. In particular, I'm concerned with what happens when either `make' or `sh' execute some 0-byte file, because those are commands which will be doing the most command-executing in the process of `make buildworld'. I'll admit I did not notice that zsh made that check, as I only checked with `sh', `bash', and (inadvertently) `make'. It might be that the kernel is already doing the right thing, and what I actually need to change is `sh' and `make' instead of something in the kernel. I'm certainly willing to figure out what needs to be changed, but I thought I should first see if there are any reasons that I should not make such a change in the first place. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@gilead.netel.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 10 12:00:09 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 773B616A41F; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:00:09 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from Hartmut.Brandt@dlr.de) Received: from smtp-1.dlr.de (smtp-1.dlr.de [195.37.61.185]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E732E43D1D; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:00:08 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from Hartmut.Brandt@dlr.de) Received: from beagle.kn.op.dlr.de ([129.247.173.6]) by smtp-1.dlr.de over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:00:07 +0200 Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:00:06 +0200 (CEST) From: Harti Brandt X-X-Sender: brandt_h@beagle.kn.op.dlr.de To: Garance A Drosihn In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050610135808.J615@beagle.kn.op.dlr.de> References: <20050610111103.GE14221@submonkey.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jun 2005 12:00:07.0845 (UTC) FILETIME=[F21C6D50:01C56DB3] Cc: Ceri Davies , freebsd-standards@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Change the executing of a 0-byte file to be an error... X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Harti Brandt List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:00:09 -0000 On Fri, 10 Jun 2005, Garance A Drosihn wrote: GAD>At 12:11 PM +0100 6/10/05, Ceri Davies wrote: GAD>> On Fri, Jun 10, 2005, Garance A Drosihn wrote: GAD>> > GAD>> > If a file is empty and executable, that empty file can be GAD>> > executed without generating any error. GAD>> GAD>> Are you sure? It seems to be a function of the shell more than GAD>> anything; the transcript below does exactly the same on both GAD>> FreeBSD 4-STABLE and Solaris 8: GAD>> GAD>> $ sh GAD>> $ PS1='sh$ ' GAD>> sh$ touch empty ; chmod +x empty GAD>> sh$ ./empty GAD>> sh$ echo $? GAD>> 0 GAD>> sh$ PS1='zsh$ ' zsh GAD>> zsh$ zsh GAD>> zsh$ ./empty GAD>> zsh: exec format error: ./empty GAD>> zsh$ GAD> GAD>Well, zsh can certainly add whatever processing it likes, but my main GAD>interest is what routines like 'exec()' will do with the file. In GAD>particular, I'm concerned with what happens when either `make' or `sh' GAD>execute some 0-byte file, because those are commands which will be GAD>doing the most command-executing in the process of `make buildworld'. GAD> GAD>I'll admit I did not notice that zsh made that check, as I only checked GAD>with `sh', `bash', and (inadvertently) `make'. It might be that the GAD>kernel is already doing the right thing, and what I actually need to GAD>change is `sh' and `make' instead of something in the kernel. I'm GAD>certainly willing to figure out what needs to be changed, but I GAD>thought I should first see if there are any reasons that I should not GAD>make such a change in the first place. make either uses a shell to execute a command or it uses execl() (depending whether you're in -j or -B mode and whether the line contains shell metacharacters or builtins), so when execl() does the right thing and the shell too, there is nothing to change in make. harti From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 10 12:19:16 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D27E16A41C; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:19:16 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 091E543D1F; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:19:15 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8761860F3; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:19:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from xps.des.no (des.no [80.203.228.37]) by tim.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74ECB60F2; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:19:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: by xps.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 5E1F333C3B; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:19:09 +0200 (CEST) To: Garance A Drosehn References: <200506090027.j590R2t0070899@repoman.freebsd.org> <20050609003619.GA10578@xor.obsecurity.org> <20050609100815.GB16677@over-yonder.net> <20050609160316.GC16677@over-yonder.net> <20050610062431.GA78875@isis.sigpipe.cz> <86fyvq3c4o.fsf@xps.des.no> <20050610112857.GB80719@isis.sigpipe.cz> From: des@des.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?=) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:19:09 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20050610112857.GB80719@isis.sigpipe.cz> (Roman Neuhauser's message of "Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:28:57 +0200") Message-ID: <86psuuv1z6.fsf@xps.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110002 (No Gnus v0.2) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Learn: ham X-Spam-Score: -5.1/5.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on tim.des.no Cc: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org, "Matthew D. Fuller" , freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org, Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: Bug in #! processing - "pear broken on current" X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:19:16 -0000 Roman Neuhauser writes: > That simply shows that all these *Linux* distros don't handle > shebang lines well. Actually, it shows that they handle shebang lines *correctly*, and that we don't unilaterally break Pear by aligning ourselves with them. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 10 12:39:42 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29BD416A41C; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:39:42 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gad@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp2.server.rpi.edu (smtp2.server.rpi.edu [128.113.2.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C348A43D4C; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:39:41 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gad@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.netel.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by smtp2.server.rpi.edu (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5ACdbqS025163; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:39:38 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20050610104829.GA80719@isis.sigpipe.cz> References: <200506090027.j590R2t0070899@repoman.freebsd.org> <20050609003619.GA10578@xor.obsecurity.org> <20050609100815.GB16677@over-yonder.net> <20050609160316.GC16677@over-yonder.net> <20050610062431.GA78875@isis.sigpipe.cz> <20050610104829.GA80719@isis.sigpipe.cz> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:39:37 -0400 To: Roman Neuhauser , Florent Thoumie From: Garance A Drosehn Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-CanItPRO-Stream: default X-RPI-SA-Score: undef - spam-scanning disabled X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . canit . ca) on 128.113.2.2 Cc: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org, "Matthew D. Fuller" , freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org, Garance A Drosehn , Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: Bug in #! processing - "pear broken on current" X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:39:42 -0000 At 12:48 PM +0200 6/10/05, Roman Neuhauser wrote: ># flz@xbsd.org / 2005-06-10 10:06:46 +0200: > > On Jun 10, 2005, at 8:24 AM, Roman Neuhauser wrote: > > > >> > The pear people have hacked around the other OS's limitations. >> > >> > This change makes FreeBSD lose one small but fine competitive >> > advantage over other unix-like systems. Pity. >> >> FreeBSD needed special handling, no it doesn't anymore. >> >> I'm not sure that's losing a *competitive* advantage. > > The previous behavior in FreeBSD allowed me to use things on > the shebang line that weren't possible in e. g. Linux, and I > enjoyed it, because it saved me from various hacks. Aiming for > the lowest common denominator means losing useful features. One > reason to prefer FreeBSD less. Well, there's more than one way to get the job done, and it is much too early to be wailing over the end of FreeBSD due to this change. The recent change to the kernel-level parsing pretty much has to stay, or FreeBSD users will continue to run into some other problems which happen *only* on FreeBSD. The parsing that we used to do was meant to be helpful, but in some situations it was completely wrong. However, I do agree that the previous behavior could be very useful in other situations. I will soon have a version of `env' which will provide all the benefits that used to happen due to the previous parsing behavior. In fact, it will be even more flexible and support even more options than the previous parsing behavior did. And I think I can even define it in such a way that other operating systems could pick up these changes to `env' (if they wanted to), and enjoy the same flexibility. And more important to me, I could recompile this new `env' on other operating systems, and at least *I* would have those benefits on all platforms I work on! I think these changes could even be MFC'ed to 5.x (and 4.x, if needed), and then a single #!-line could be written which would work on all those systems. I'm not sure that MFC-ing would be worth it, though. I actually have my changes written and mostly working, and right now I am reviewing the ideas to see if the design could be done any better. Now I don't know if I can get everyone else to agree that my ideas are wonderful, of course, but it sounds like I might get a 'yes' vote from you. :-) More details soon, and then we shall see. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@gilead.netel.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@FreeBSD.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 10 12:51:55 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98D5216A41C; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:51:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gad@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp3.server.rpi.edu (smtp3.server.rpi.edu [128.113.2.3]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F15943D49; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:51:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gad@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.netel.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by smtp3.server.rpi.edu (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5ACpqtB022901; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:51:53 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20050610090610.GA30852@FreeBSD.org> References: <53d4293a37f280317d52338c2fc6fc6d@FreeBSD.org> <20050610090610.GA30852@FreeBSD.org> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:51:51 -0400 To: Eivind Eklund , John Baldwin From: Garance A Drosehn Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-CanItPRO-Stream: default X-RPI-SA-Score: undef - spam-scanning disabled X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . canit . ca) on 128.113.2.3 Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Death to toor X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:51:55 -0000 At 9:06 AM +0000 6/10/05, Eivind Eklund wrote: >On Thu, Jun 09, 2005, John Baldwin wrote: > > Is there any good reason to keep the toor account around nowadays? > >I support its death. I have no strong opinion whether it should stay or go, but I thought one purpose for it was to allow an alternative to root if /bin/csh was hosed. I guess you could just boot up into single-user mode in that case, but I thought the historical reason for toor were for some things like that. It was not just that people didn't know how to change the shell for root... But I don't mind if it goes, because to me it does not seem useful until you set a password for it. And if you're going to customize the password file to set that password, then you can just as easily add whatever alternate-root userids that you personally want. So having 'toor' in the base system doesn't do much for me. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@gilead.netel.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@FreeBSD.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 10 13:23:43 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2220216A41C; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:23:43 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from neuhauser@sigpipe.cz) Received: from isis.sigpipe.cz (fw.sigpipe.cz [62.245.70.224]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E320243D60; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:23:41 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from neuhauser@sigpipe.cz) Received: by isis.sigpipe.cz (Postfix, from userid 1001) id B7DF51F87BED; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:23:39 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:23:39 +0200 From: Roman Neuhauser To: Garance A Drosehn Message-ID: <20050610132339.GC80719@isis.sigpipe.cz> Mail-Followup-To: Garance A Drosehn , Florent Thoumie , Kris Kennaway , freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org, "Matthew D. Fuller" , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org References: <200506090027.j590R2t0070899@repoman.freebsd.org> <20050609003619.GA10578@xor.obsecurity.org> <20050609100815.GB16677@over-yonder.net> <20050609160316.GC16677@over-yonder.net> <20050610062431.GA78875@isis.sigpipe.cz> <20050610104829.GA80719@isis.sigpipe.cz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Cc: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org, Kris Kennaway , "Matthew D. Fuller" , freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org, Florent Thoumie Subject: Re: Bug in #! processing - "pear broken on current" X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:23:43 -0000 # gad@FreeBSD.org / 2005-06-10 08:39:37 -0400: > At 12:48 PM +0200 6/10/05, Roman Neuhauser wrote: > ># flz@xbsd.org / 2005-06-10 10:06:46 +0200: > > > On Jun 10, 2005, at 8:24 AM, Roman Neuhauser wrote: > > > > > >> > The pear people have hacked around the other OS's limitations. > >> > > >> > This change makes FreeBSD lose one small but fine competitive > >> > advantage over other unix-like systems. Pity. > >> > >> FreeBSD needed special handling, no it doesn't anymore. > >> > >> I'm not sure that's losing a *competitive* advantage. > > > > The previous behavior in FreeBSD allowed me to use things on > > the shebang line that weren't possible in e. g. Linux, and I > > enjoyed it, because it saved me from various hacks. Aiming for > > the lowest common denominator means losing useful features. One > > reason to prefer FreeBSD less. > > Well, there's more than one way to get the job done, and it is much > too early to be wailing over the end of FreeBSD due to this change. > The recent change to the kernel-level parsing pretty much has to stay, > or FreeBSD users will continue to run into some other problems which > happen *only* on FreeBSD. The parsing that we used to do was meant > to be helpful, but in some situations it was completely wrong. But it was completely right in the pear case, and far more useful, which is what I'm whining about. > > > I think these changes could even be MFC'ed to 5.x (and 4.x, if needed), > and then a single #!-line could be written which would work on all > those systems. I'm not sure that MFC-ing would be worth it, though. > > I actually have my changes written and mostly working, and right now I > am reviewing the ideas to see if the design could be done any better. > Now I don't know if I can get everyone else to agree that my ideas > are wonderful, of course, but it sounds like I might get a 'yes' vote > from you. :-) More details soon, and then we shall see. Well, such env(1) *will* be useful, but recall that endless debate over "#!/usr/bin/perl" vs "#!/usr/bin/env perl"? env(1) isn't very practical when you have programs out of (current) path (like in SU), but that's just one small glitch traded for another one. To sum it up: why, yeah, if you have a recipe to coerce existing programs into the new model, go ahead. Make sure it's noted somewhere port contributors will find it. -- How many Vietnam vets does it take to screw in a light bulb? You don't know, man. You don't KNOW. Cause you weren't THERE. http://bash.org/?255991 From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 10 13:24:03 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A19D16A41C; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:24:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from bde@zeta.org.au) Received: from mailout1.pacific.net.au (mailout1.pacific.net.au [61.8.0.84]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68D0743D48; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:24:02 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from bde@zeta.org.au) Received: from mailproxy2.pacific.net.au (mailproxy2.pacific.net.au [61.8.0.87]) by mailout1.pacific.net.au (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-1) with ESMTP id j5ADO0K6017088; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 23:24:00 +1000 Received: from katana.zip.com.au (katana.zip.com.au [61.8.7.246]) by mailproxy2.pacific.net.au (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-1) with ESMTP id j5ADNwQ7015739; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 23:23:59 +1000 Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 23:23:59 +1000 (EST) From: Bruce Evans X-X-Sender: bde@delplex.bde.org To: Poul-Henning Kamp In-Reply-To: <9131.1118346135@critter.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: <20050610231928.J25650@delplex.bde.org> References: <9131.1118346135@critter.freebsd.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: arch@freebsd.org, Pawel Jakub Dawidek Subject: Re: simplify disksort, please review. X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:24:03 -0000 On Thu, 9 Jun 2005, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message <20050609193008.GB837@darkness.comp.waw.pl>, Pawel Jakub Dawidek writes: > >> The one example of how the order can be broken (write(offset, size)): >> >> write(1024, 512) >> write(0, 2048) > > If you issue these two requests just like that, you get no guarantee > which order they get written in. > > It's not just disksort which might surprise you, tagged queuing and > write caches may mess up your day as well. Internal (buffer) caches too. For 2 sparate writes there must normally be 2 separate buffers, and if the buffer data overlaps then the buffers may be incoherent, especially if they are malloced (which rarely happens now, so overlapping buffers are more likely to just clobber each other when their data is written to in memory than their data is to become incoherent). File systems should use a fixed block size with all buffers beginning on a block boundary so that they never generate overlapping buffers. Bruce From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 10 14:08:15 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC58216A41C; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:08:15 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gad@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp4.server.rpi.edu (smtp4.server.rpi.edu [128.113.2.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 850F743D48; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:08:15 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gad@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.netel.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by smtp4.server.rpi.edu (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5AE8BPb011206; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:08:13 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20050610132339.GC80719@isis.sigpipe.cz> References: <200506090027.j590R2t0070899@repoman.freebsd.org> <20050609003619.GA10578@xor.obsecurity.org> <20050609100815.GB16677@over-yonder.net> <20050609160316.GC16677@over-yonder.net> <20050610062431.GA78875@isis.sigpipe.cz> <20050610104829.GA80719@isis.sigpipe.cz> <20050610132339.GC80719@isis.sigpipe.cz> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:08:11 -0400 To: Roman Neuhauser From: Garance A Drosehn Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-CanItPRO-Stream: default X-RPI-SA-Score: undef - spam-scanning disabled X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . canit . ca) on 128.113.2.4 Cc: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org, Kris Kennaway , "Matthew D. Fuller" , freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org, Florent Thoumie Subject: Re: Bug in #! processing - "pear broken on current" X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:08:16 -0000 At 3:23 PM +0200 6/10/05, Roman Neuhauser wrote: ># gad@FreeBSD.org / 2005-06-10 08:39:37 -0400: > > > > I actually have my changes written and mostly working, and right > > now I am reviewing the ideas to see if the design could be done > > any better. > > Well, such env(1) *will* be useful, but recall that endless > debate over "#!/usr/bin/perl" vs "#!/usr/bin/env perl"? That is a very different issue... I do remember that debate, and in fact I was in the thick of it. It's just that I didn't have much spare time to write up code for an alternate solution at the time. Maybe someday I'll get back to that. We *use* an alternate solution for that issue here at RPI (instead of using `env' for it), so I know other solutions are workable. > env(1) isn't very practical when you have programs out of > (current) path (like in SU), but that's just one small glitch > traded for another one. Sure it is. My understanding is that you want to do something like: #!/usr/local/bin/php -n -q -dsafe_mode=0 -doutput_buffering=1 With my new `env' in place, that line becomes: #!/usr/bin/env -S/usr/local/bin/php -n -q -dsafe_mode=0 -doutput_buffering=1 The setting of PATH is irrelevant -- or at least it is no more important than it had been with the previous setup. You were never *required* to use an unqualified filename with `env'. That is the example you see the most, but only because people *want* to use `env' just so that they *can* get `perl' from the PATH. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@gilead.netel.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@FreeBSD.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 10 14:46:06 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BD7316A430; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:46:06 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from yar@comp.chem.msu.su) Received: from comp.chem.msu.su (comp.chem.msu.su [158.250.32.97]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4A5843D1D; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:46:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from yar@comp.chem.msu.su) Received: from comp.chem.msu.su (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by comp.chem.msu.su (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AEk33C067695; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 18:46:03 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from yar@comp.chem.msu.su) Received: (from yar@localhost) by comp.chem.msu.su (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id j5AEk3qv067694; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 18:46:03 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from yar) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 18:46:03 +0400 From: Yar Tikhiy To: John Baldwin Message-ID: <20050610144603.GA65307@comp.chem.msu.su> References: <53d4293a37f280317d52338c2fc6fc6d@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <53d4293a37f280317d52338c2fc6fc6d@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Death to toor X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:46:07 -0000 On Thu, Jun 09, 2005 at 04:40:19PM -0700, John Baldwin wrote: > Is there any good reason to keep the toor account around nowadays? > vipw has existed since 4.0BSD and chsh and friends have existed since > 4.3BSD-Reno so I think that it's safe to say that folks are more than > capable nowadays of changing root's default shell if desired. Also, > '/bin/csh' and '/bin/sh' aren't very hard to type once you are logged > in as root whatever the default shell may be. IMHO toor has been a nice and harmless rudiment from the Good Old Days, so the only real reason to drop it is to stop the noise emitted by the folks who get the thing wrong and keep inventing fantastic purposes toor allegedly has. I've seen loads of those on the Net. -- Yar From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 10 16:18:45 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39C4C16A41C; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 16:18:45 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [204.156.12.53]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D97FA43D55; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 16:18:44 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0B3F46B14; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:18:43 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:20:03 +0100 (BST) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: John Baldwin In-Reply-To: <53d4293a37f280317d52338c2fc6fc6d@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: <20050610171915.K59126@fledge.watson.org> References: <53d4293a37f280317d52338c2fc6fc6d@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Death to toor X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 16:18:45 -0000 On Thu, 9 Jun 2005, John Baldwin wrote: > Is there any good reason to keep the toor account around nowadays? > vipw has existed since 4.0BSD and chsh and friends have existed since > 4.3BSD-Reno so I think that it's safe to say that folks are more than > capable nowadays of changing root's default shell if desired. Also, > '/bin/csh' and '/bin/sh' aren't very hard to type once you are logged in > as root whatever the default shell may be. You're heartless, and I hope you're never in the position of deciding whether to pull the plug on me once I appear to have past my prime. However, I have no objection to you pulling the plug on toor :-). Robert N M Watson From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 10 17:21:44 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DCB316A421; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:21:44 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from zcjithgnbcr@fusemail.com) Received: from 242.Red-83-45-59.pooles.rima-tde.net (242.Red-83-45-59.pooles.rima-tde.net [83.45.59.242]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 09D2243D1F; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:21:19 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from zcjithgnbcr@fusemail.com) Delivered-To: zcjithgnbcr@fusemail.com Received: by springfield.enoch.org (Wostfix, from userid 79480) id 0F93F713; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:21:21 -0800 Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:21:21 -0800 From: "Ahmad Hare" Message-ID: <9D6AA7EB.2540549@islandnet.net> To: jasone@freebsd.org X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.11 (www dot roaringpenguin dot com slash mimedefang) Cc: freebsd-small@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Find a fuck-friend tonight X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:21:44 -0000 There is this free date site filled with a bunch of sexoholics. No flowers, no walk on the beach, just meet up for sex :) There are also some people who want serious relationships though So if you want a long-termer, or a one-nighter, you got it ;) Whatever floats your boat pretty much! http://www.onlyliveonce.net/ From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 10 17:31:42 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0F2816A422; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:31:42 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (CPE0050040655c8-CM00111ae02aac.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [69.194.102.232]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACFB143D5C; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:31:41 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 0D5675123D; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:31:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:31:40 -0400 From: Kris Kennaway To: John Baldwin Message-ID: <20050610173140.GA91980@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <53d4293a37f280317d52338c2fc6fc6d@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="OgqxwSJOaUobr8KG" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <53d4293a37f280317d52338c2fc6fc6d@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Death to toor X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:31:42 -0000 --OgqxwSJOaUobr8KG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jun 09, 2005 at 04:40:19PM -0700, John Baldwin wrote: > Is there any good reason to keep the toor account around nowadays? =20 > vipw has existed since 4.0BSD and chsh and friends have existed since=20 > 4.3BSD-Reno so I think that it's safe to say that folks are more than=20 > capable nowadays of changing root's default shell if desired. Also,=20 > '/bin/csh' and '/bin/sh' aren't very hard to type once you are logged=20 > in as root whatever the default shell may be. I use it, so I won't be deleting it from my machines. Kris --OgqxwSJOaUobr8KG Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFCqc58Wry0BWjoQKURAiJWAJ4vDQKiMoqtD4xrykQa1woPU9/x2wCgm1P8 OdjxmGROoqPQeVzVFzu3qfs= =zw0V -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --OgqxwSJOaUobr8KG-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 10 18:20:10 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB34116A41C for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 18:20:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from bzeeb-lists@lists.zabbadoz.net) Received: from transport.cksoft.de (transport.cksoft.de [62.111.66.27]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BD5343D48 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 18:20:09 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from bzeeb-lists@lists.zabbadoz.net) Received: from transport.cksoft.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by transport.cksoft.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16D461FF9A8 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 20:20:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: by transport.cksoft.de (Postfix, from userid 66) id D7A991FF9A7; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 20:20:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mail.int.zabbadoz.net (Postfix, from userid 1060) id 44DC5157EE; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 18:19:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.int.zabbadoz.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AB821537B for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 18:19:22 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 18:19:22 +0000 (UTC) From: "Bjoern A. Zeeb" X-X-Sender: bz@e0-0.zab2.int.zabbadoz.net To: arch@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <53d4293a37f280317d52338c2fc6fc6d@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: References: <53d4293a37f280317d52338c2fc6fc6d@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS cksoft-s20020300-20031204bz on transport.cksoft.de Cc: Subject: Re: Death to toor X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 18:20:11 -0000 On Thu, 9 Jun 2005, John Baldwin wrote: Hi, > Is there any good reason to keep the toor account around nowadays? > vipw has existed since 4.0BSD and chsh and friends have existed since > 4.3BSD-Reno so I think that it's safe to say that folks are more than > capable nowadays of changing root's default shell if desired. Also, > '/bin/csh' and '/bin/sh' aren't very hard to type once you are logged > in as root whatever the default shell may be. I often use toor with a different passphrase that only I know when installing machines and it safed me a boot more often than I had wished. As long as it doesn't harm I wouldn't remove it. -- Bjoern A. Zeeb bzeeb at Zabbadoz dot NeT How about a nice game of chess? From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 10 19:37:50 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AF9416A41C; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 19:37:50 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gad@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp3.server.rpi.edu (smtp3.server.rpi.edu [128.113.2.3]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3898643D1F; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 19:37:50 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gad@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.netel.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by smtp3.server.rpi.edu (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5AJblZJ011027; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:37:48 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:37:46 -0400 To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org From: Garance A Drosehn Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-CanItPRO-Stream: default X-RPI-SA-Score: undef - spam-scanning disabled X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . canit . ca) on 128.113.2.3 Cc: Roman Neuhauser , Kris Kennaway Subject: Changes to `arg' - Bug in #! processing & "pear broken..." X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 19:37:50 -0000 As most people are probably tired of hearing, I recently changed the way the kernel parses #!-lines in shell scripts. This solves some problems with scripts that only break on FreeBSD, but it also removed some nice flexibility that FreeBSD has supported for many years now. I now propose to re-implement that flexibility (and more!) via some changes to the `env' command. The changes add three new (non-standard) options to `env'. Right now all three are wrapped up in a single update, but then the options are somewhat tied together. I could split them apart for committing. I'd like to commit these changes to 6.0, and they should also be fine to MFC to 5.x. They do not depend on the change in kernel-parsing (and *that* parsing-change will *not* be MFC-ed!). The three new options are: -v -- Turns up a verbosity setting, useful for seeing what `env' is doing. Particularly useful for debugging the following options. -S string -- "split string on spaces". The idea is to take a single string, split it into separate arguments, and then process those arguments. This supports single-quoted strings, double-quoted strings, and a few other features that the previous parsing code was never going to support. -P altpath -- specify a path list to use when searching for the 'utility' (program to execute). `env' does the search itself, without checking or changing the present value of PATH. This was implemented by copying a few routines from the `which' command. Note that due to the parsing-change in 6.0, the -P option is pretty much worthless for scripts in 6.0 without the -S option. These options would then let you have a script start with: #!/usr/bin/env -S /usr/local/bin/php -n -q -dsafe_mode=0 which would work exactly the way that: #!/usr/local/bin/php -n -q -dsafe_mode=0 does in 5.x-stable. They would also let you have a script which starts with: #!/usr/bin/env -S -P/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin perl and the script will execute /usr/local/bin/perl or /usr/bin/perl, without caring about the present setting for PATH=, and without changing what value the script will see for PATH= when it executes. All of new options put together will just about double the size of `env' on my system: i386: root wheel 4184 Jun 10 01:08 /usr/bin/env* root wheel 7360 Jun 10 14:31 /usr/bin/env-rel6* ppc: root wheel 8948 Jun 6 01:58 /usr/bin/env* root wheel 11912 Jun 10 14:28 /usr/bin/env-rel6* sparc: root wheel 6040 Jun 10 14:51 /usr/bin/env* root wheel 10008 Jun 10 14:52 /usr/bin/env-rel6* It does compile with WARNS=6 on the above three platforms, but then it did that before I started. The actual update is presently over 300 lines, so I'll just include a pointer to it: http://people.freebsd.org/~gad/env-rel6.diff It has only had some light testing, so I'm sure there's at least a few bugs in there somewhere. I have not made any changes to the man page yet, but the comments should give you a good idea of how I *mean* for it to work. So, is this overkill? I think these features would be useful... -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@gilead.netel.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@FreeBSD.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 10 21:30:09 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 503D016A43A for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 21:30:09 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jroberson@chesapeake.net) Received: from mail.chesapeake.net (chesapeake.net [208.142.252.6]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE6B443D1F for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 21:30:08 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jroberson@chesapeake.net) Received: from mail.chesapeake.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.chesapeake.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5ALU7k9069703; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:30:07 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jroberson@chesapeake.net) Received: from localhost (jroberson@localhost) by mail.chesapeake.net (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) with ESMTP id j5ALU6Pb069698; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:30:06 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jroberson@chesapeake.net) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.chesapeake.net: jroberson owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:30:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeff Roberson To: Poul-Henning Kamp In-Reply-To: <9261.1118346707@critter.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: <20050610172746.N16943@mail.chesapeake.net> References: <9261.1118346707@critter.freebsd.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, Antoine Brodin Subject: Re: RFC: Stack saving/tracing functionality. X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 21:30:11 -0000 On Thu, 9 Jun 2005, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message <20050608221829.75c2de12.antoine.brodin@laposte.net>, Antoine Brodin writes: > >Hi, > > > > > >With Jeff@'s help, I implemented stack saving/tracing functionality. > > Thankyou! Yes, indeed. Good work Antoine. > > >Another question: Since the stack saving/tracing functionality depends > >on ddb, should kern/subr_stack.c be moved to ddb/stack.c and > >sys/stack.h to ddb/stack.h? > > No. > > This code should be compiled in as standard so that any panic prints > a stacktrace on the console, also for non-KDB kernels. You mean use it to print the unresolved addresses without ddb compiled in? It might be useful to breakout the ddb functionality which parses the symbols, and consider always building in the symbols except perhaps in extreme low memory situations. > > A sysctl to enable grepping a backtrace from core-dumping processes > would be wonderful as well. I'm not sure I understand what you mean here? This is designed to save and display kernel stacks while running. > > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 > phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 > FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe > Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 10 21:32:58 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9985616A435 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 21:32:57 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from antoine@madhouse.dreadbsd.org) Received: from barton.dreadbsd.org (madhouse.dreadbsd.org [82.67.196.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2505D43D4C for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 21:32:56 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from antoine@madhouse.dreadbsd.org) Received: from barton.dreadbsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by barton.dreadbsd.org (8.13.4/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5ALWtaH095470; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 23:32:55 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from antoine@madhouse.dreadbsd.org) Received: (from antoine@localhost) by barton.dreadbsd.org (8.13.4/8.13.1/Submit) id j5ALWsq5095469; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 23:32:54 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from antoine) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 23:32:54 +0200 From: Antoine Brodin To: "Poul-Henning Kamp" Message-Id: <20050610233254.44880290.antoine.brodin@laposte.net> In-Reply-To: <9261.1118346707@critter.freebsd.dk> References: <20050608221829.75c2de12.antoine.brodin@laposte.net> <9261.1118346707@critter.freebsd.dk> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 1.9.12 (GTK+ 2.6.7; i386-portbld-freebsd6.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: RFC: Stack saving/tracing functionality. X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 21:33:00 -0000 "Poul-Henning Kamp" wrote: > In message <20050608221829.75c2de12.antoine.brodin@laposte.net>, Antoine Brodin writes: > >Hi, > > > > > >With Jeff@'s help, I implemented stack saving/tracing functionality. > > Thankyou! > > >Another question: Since the stack saving/tracing functionality depends > >on ddb, should kern/subr_stack.c be moved to ddb/stack.c and > >sys/stack.h to ddb/stack.h? > > No. > > This code should be compiled in as standard so that any panic prints > a stacktrace on the console, also for non-KDB kernels. I put the MD code in //db_trace.c to avoid the duplication of some structure declarations like i386_frame, or the definition of the INKERNEL macro. Should I move these to something like /include/frame.h and put stack_save in its own file (this function is around 20 lines per arch) ? > A sysctl to enable grepping a backtrace from core-dumping processes > would be wonderful as well. It isn't possible to backtrace processes while they're in userland yet, and I'm not sure it would be safe (one could corrupt its own stack to try to confuse the kernel) and useful (gdb handles core dumps very well). But you can grab the end of life of the process in the kernel like: %%% #0 0xc04d712c at sigexit+0xfc #1 0xc04d6d9c at postsig+0x19c #2 0xc04f8fc8 at ast+0x4d8 #3 0xc061726d at doreti_ast+0x17 %%% I don't know if this is what you were looking for ? An updated patch with a correction in the alpha case is at: http://bsd.miki.eu.org/~antoine/stack/stack-06-10.diff Cheers, Antoine From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 11 07:22:54 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4ED116A41C for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 07:22:54 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7368043D49 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 07:22:54 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (0x535869c7.naenxx7.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk [83.88.105.199]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85932262816 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 09:22:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.13.4/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5B7MjYJ001079; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 09:22:45 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Jeff Roberson From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:30:06 EDT." <20050610172746.N16943@mail.chesapeake.net> Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 09:22:45 +0200 Message-ID: <1078.1118474565@critter.freebsd.dk> Sender: phk@critter.freebsd.dk Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, Antoine Brodin Subject: Re: RFC: Stack saving/tracing functionality. X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 07:22:54 -0000 In message <20050610172746.N16943@mail.chesapeake.net>, Jeff Roberson writes: >> A sysctl to enable grepping a backtrace from core-dumping processes >> would be wonderful as well. > >I'm not sure I understand what you mean here? This is designed to save >and display kernel stacks while running. ... but it would be neat if it could also save/print userland stacks so that we could get tracebacks from abort()'ing userland programs. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 11 15:46:33 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B02016A41C for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 15:46:33 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from bakul@bitblocks.com) Received: from gate.bitblocks.com (bitblocks.com [209.204.185.216]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B69BF43D1D for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 15:46:32 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from bakul@bitblocks.com) Received: from bitblocks.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gate.bitblocks.com (8.13.3/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5BFkToq011515; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 08:46:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bakul@bitblocks.com) Message-Id: <200506111546.j5BFkToq011515@gate.bitblocks.com> To: "Poul-Henning Kamp" In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 11 Jun 2005 09:22:45 +0200." <1078.1118474565@critter.freebsd.dk> Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 08:46:29 -0700 From: Bakul Shah Cc: Antoine Brodin , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: RFC: Stack saving/tracing functionality. X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 15:46:33 -0000 > ... but it would be neat if it could also save/print userland stacks > so that we could get tracebacks from abort()'ing userland programs. Along these lines; wouldn't it be neat if there was a sysctl to leave a segfaulted or aborted process around so that you can attach a debugger to it and find out what went wrong (and may be even correct it!)? Debugging a live process (even if fatally injured) yields more clues as you can poke around at its I/O connections, its caller process etc. A separate program can be used to create a coredump if you really wish to preseve the dead body for later autopsy.