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Date:      Mon, 8 Oct 2012 07:54:58 -0600
From:      Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>
To:        Doug Barton <dougb@FreeBSD.org>
Cc:        "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Arch" <freebsd-arch@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: New Boot Loader Menu
Message-ID:  <8E009EA2-2274-4B46-8309-410EE8879C08@bsdimp.com>
In-Reply-To: <50726C73.10506@FreeBSD.org>
References:  <0655B56F-AD43-402B-872C-568378E650F9@fisglobal.com> <5071D6B5.1010609@FreeBSD.org> <B4A82131-4B11-4FE8-839B-FCC45C1D4445@fisglobal.com> <50726C73.10506@FreeBSD.org>

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On Oct 8, 2012, at 12:02 AM, Doug Barton wrote:
>>> Regarding the UI on your submenu example; never, ever, ever use=20
>>> Backspace to mean anything other than "delete the character behind
>>> the cursor."
>>=20
>> Seriously? Who made _that_ rule? and moreover, _WHY_?
>=20
> Um, if you don't already know the answers, I really can't help you. Go
> get a book on how to right proper user interfaces.

I've seen several interfaces that used this paradigm, and it works well =
so long as BackSpace doesn't have another binding in that context.  I'd =
be curious to find a book that says NEVER, EVER do this.  It drives me =
nuts on my DVD player that I have to hit 'STOP' sometimes to get back to =
the main menu, 'RETURN' other times, the back arrow other times and the =
back rewind still other times depending on which context I'm in.  They =
are all the same bloody thing, and on other DVD players, they all do the =
same thing, even if the back arrow is the only one they document (well, =
except maybe for STOP, that's the odd-man out, but that part of the UI =
of my DVD player is the part that sucks the most).

So as primary and only, I'm not so sure.  As an alias, it is fine.  What =
else are you going to do with it?  A case could be made that you are =
'deleting' the previous character that got you to that menu.  In the =
absence of menu buttons that you can click on,  there needs to be some =
easy way to go back.

> Meanwhile, I've no objection to the idea of having move "safe mode" to =
a
> submenu, if that's the consensus. I don't think we should move ACPI
> because users who need to enable that option are already having enough
> problems as it is.

Maybe we need a menu item: "Help With Booting (special settings and =
modes)" or something similar that we hide these things behind.  While =
"Advanced" might look sleek and cool, people unfamiliar with the boot =
process won't think to try it if they are having trouble.

Warner




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