From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 22 23:05:30 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D4C7EBEE for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2014 23:05:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.iXsystems.com (mail.ixsystems.com [12.229.62.4]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.ixsystems.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B4718BE for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2014 23:05:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (mail.ixsystems.com [10.2.55.1]) by mail.iXsystems.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 497B6884E7; Wed, 22 Oct 2014 16:05:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.iXsystems.com ([10.2.55.1]) by localhost (mail.ixsystems.com [10.2.55.1]) (maiad, port 10024) with ESMTP id 40177-09; Wed, 22 Oct 2014 16:05:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.2.0.80] (unknown [10.2.0.80]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.iXsystems.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B8640884E2; Wed, 22 Oct 2014 16:05:28 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.0 \(1990.1\)) Subject: Re: nosh version 1.9 From: Jordan Hubbard In-Reply-To: <54482A5E.2050303@NTLWorld.com> Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 16:07:58 -0700 Message-Id: <6C9A0CEC-2169-48BB-8B80-EB3C37EE170E@turbofuzz.com> References: <54430B41.3010301@NTLWorld.com> <5443191E.5050208@mu.org> <34F30D28-DE9B-444F-885E-F438FEEA46EC@mu.org> <54482A5E.2050303@NTLWorld.com> To: Jonathan de Boyne Pollard X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1990.1) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 01:49:42 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.18-1 Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 23:05:31 -0000 > On Oct 22, 2014, at 3:06 PM, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard = > wrote: >=20 > There have been, to my knowledge, three attempts (in 2005, 2008, and = 2013) to give launchd to the general BSD world that have involved more = than just talk. All have foundered. The discomforting truth is that we = aren't going to get launchd for doing service and system management for = the very same reasons that we aren't going to get systemd for doing = service and system management. systemd is full of Linuxisms. launchd = is full of Machisms. It's simply not a BSD program. It's a Mach = program. (The fact that the initial process program isn't portable is = obvious in hindsight. I kicked myself. I've written several initial = process programs before. They aren't, and cannot be, limited to = non-operating-system-specific stuff.) One attempt to port launchd = involved stubbing out the Machisms. There has been a recent attempt to = port systemd to FreeBSD that is in the same boat: stub out or remove all = of the operating system specific parts, and one can get a program that = will compile (with a lot of compiler warnings); but it doesn't function. >=20 > The launchd train is never coming. =20 I aim to disprove that assertion sometime in the next 12 months. I=E2=80=99ll also point out that it would have taken less time to port = NetBSD=E2=80=99s COMPAT_MACH code than it=E2=80=99s probably taken to = beat one=E2=80=99s head against mach ports in launchd. They would = certainly not be the first Mach code FreeBSD has ever seen (take a look = at the VM system sometime!). - Jordan