From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Oct 15 7: 5:39 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from slkcpop3.slkc.uswest.net (mail.slkc.uswest.net [206.81.128.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1455137B671 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 07:05:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 6959 invoked by alias); 15 Oct 2000 14:05:30 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org@fixme Received: (qmail 6941 invoked by uid 0); 15 Oct 2000 14:05:28 -0000 Received: from badialup101.slkc.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (63.225.236.101) by mail.slkc.uswest.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 2000 14:05:28 -0000 Message-ID: <39E9B8AB.9EE27636@uswest.net> Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 08:01:15 -0600 From: Joe Warner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jukka =?iso-8859-1?Q?Simil=E4?= Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Newbies web page [was: -newbies] References: <8F68F32EB034D311A4A700508B4417D702F5FE3B@RATATOSK.sveg.se.sykes.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------6D010E5C3E26B576591A580D" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --------------6D010E5C3E26B576591A580D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >FAK should be edited to fit in 10 sentences at most. It has the >link to http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies/ anyway, so >if someone needs more info, he/she can visit the site. I agree with this, however, the reason I recommended that the FAK be posted more frequently is to provide a means to educate new subscribers on what the rules and focus of this list are. People like you, me and Rick, don't read the FAK everytime it's posted because we've already read it. Someone who just subscribed to the list would read it. And, because of the large number of new subscribers, it makes sense to me, to have it posted more frequently to increase the chance of reaching new subscribers. After further thought, maybe a better way to achieve this, would be to include the FAK in the welcome message you receive after subscribing? This would eliminate the need of having it posted every week. I realize that receiving the FAK once a week is annoying to some but there is a need to find a way to effectively communicate the rules and focus of this list to new subscribers. Joe Jukka Similä wrote: > Ok, I wan't to add my 2 cents :) I've been a "newbie" for a while too, > pretty much as long as Rick, and I quite a much share Rick's opinions > about the state of -newbies. > > Jason wrote: > > I may have entered into this conversation a little late, but > > I think that a > > newbie's site would be awesome. The current FBSD newbie's > > page just isn't > > enough for a newbie to pick up on... > > my 1st cent: > http://bsdquickstart.freeservers.com > I did send this URL to Sue for a while ago, but I didn't receive any reply.. > That is my attempt to make a startup point for newbies. > By the way Rick, this thread was the first time I heard about your site, > and you know what, we have pretty much same links on our sites ;) > > >Sue wrote: > >>When you join -newbies you get a brief run-down, and then the FAK > >>is posted once a week. What do you want, daily? > > Joe wrote: > >No. How about every 5 days? > > and the 2nd cent: > FAK definitely doesn't need to be posted more often. > It doesn't make any difference, because NOBODY READS IT ANYWAY. > Sorry for shouting. But the FAK is way too long to be posted > weekly. > > FAK should be edited to fit in 10 sentences at most. It has the > link to http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies/ anyway, so > if someone needs more info, he/she can visit the site. > > And in case someone wants to bark on that passive form 'FAK > *should* be edited': I volunteer to do that, if nobody else > will ;) > > @-,--`--,--- > Jukka Simila -- FreeBSD = The Power to Serve ..Simply put = FreeBSD Rocks! --------------6D010E5C3E26B576591A580D Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  
>FAK should be edited to fit in 10 sentences at most. It has the
>link to http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies/ anyway, so
>if someone needs more info, he/she can visit the site.

I agree with this, however, the reason I recommended that the FAK
be posted more frequently is to provide a means to educate new
subscribers on what the rules and focus of this list are.  People like
you, me and Rick, don't read the FAK everytime it's posted because
we've already read it.  Someone who just subscribed to the list
would read it.  And, because of the large number of new subscribers,
it makes sense to me, to have it posted more frequently to increase
the chance of reaching new subscribers.  After further thought, maybe
a better way to achieve this, would be to include the FAK in the
welcome message you receive after subscribing?  This would
eliminate the need of having it posted every week.  I realize that
receiving the FAK once a week is annoying to some but there
is a need to find a way to effectively communicate the rules and
focus of this list to new subscribers.

Joe

Jukka Similä wrote:

Ok, I wan't to add my 2 cents :) I've been a "newbie" for a while too,
pretty much as long as Rick, and I quite a much share Rick's opinions
about the state of -newbies.

Jason wrote:
> I may have entered into this conversation a little late, but
> I think that a
> newbie's site would be awesome. The current FBSD newbie's
> page just isn't
> enough for a newbie to pick up on...

my 1st cent:
http://bsdquickstart.freeservers.com
I did send this URL to Sue for a while ago, but I didn't receive any reply..
That is my attempt to make a startup point for newbies.
By the way Rick, this thread was the first time I heard about your site,
and you know what, we have pretty much same links on our sites ;)

>Sue wrote:
>>When you join -newbies you get a brief run-down, and then the FAK
>>is posted once a week. What do you want, daily?

Joe wrote:
>No.  How about every 5 days?

and the 2nd cent:
FAK definitely doesn't need to be posted more often.
It doesn't make any difference, because NOBODY READS IT ANYWAY.
Sorry for shouting. But the FAK is way too long to be posted
weekly.

FAK should be edited to fit in 10 sentences at most. It has the
link to http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies/ anyway, so
if someone needs more info, he/she can visit the site.

And in case someone wants to bark on that passive form 'FAK
*should* be edited': I volunteer to do that, if nobody else
will ;)

@-,--`--,---
Jukka Simila

--

    FreeBSD = The Power to Serve
     ..Simply put = FreeBSD Rocks!
  --------------6D010E5C3E26B576591A580D-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Oct 15 8:13:30 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail0.lig.bellsouth.net (mail0.lig.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A518F37B66F; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 08:13:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prokyon.com (adsl-61-148-46.int.bellsouth.net [208.61.148.46]) by mail0.lig.bellsouth.net (3.3.5alt/0.75.2) with ESMTP id LAA22159; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 11:13:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <39E9C92F.2EACA020@prokyon.com> Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 11:11:43 -0400 From: Chris Browning X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: -newbies ($0.02 more) References: <39E8E276.929B570F@gorean.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I've been lurking, too and fearful of jumping in; FWIW here's mine... Doug Barton wrote: > > No, they really don't. We have made huge progress during the last two > years at making -questions a "kindler, gentler" place to ask even the > most mundane question. And even though there are still the occasional > boneheads, it is actually doing quite well, _especially_ considering the > vast expansion of the freebsd userbase during the same period. Sometimes what needs work is _gently_ telling those who post an inappropriate question to -newbies that the question needs to be on -questions. I've been using FreeBSD since 2.1.5 but still consider myself in some ways a newbie. I follow -newbies because I find questions that I feel I can help folks with. I tend to answer off-list (I know I shouldn't) and try to gently encourage the poster to try -questions and to explain the rationale behind the other replies they've gotten that insist they've posted to the _wrong_ list. > > In short, there should be one place, and one place only that is the > starting point for real questions. The meta-questions like, "I need to > ask about hooping my frobnitz, but I'm not sure which list is the right > one to ask on" are still on topic for -newbies, even though that > question could really be asked on -questions too. I agree with and appreciate the one-place-only theory. With FreeBSD I know I'm not getting some third- or fourth-hand interpretation of what someone thinks should the the right answer. That's why my Linux box is an experiment and learning-tool and FreeBSD is my primary computer. I also realize that this is exactly why I should _not_ answer the questions I do off-list. It defeats the peer-review process that makes open-source so powerful. I just hate to see potential BSD users run off pointlessly. Perhaps a person posting an inappropriately technical question to -newbies should be congratulated on making that first step towards the level of sophistication needed to move to -questions. Pardon my prolixity. Thanks for listening. -- ------------------------ Chris Browning brownicm@prokyon.com ------------------------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Oct 15 9:22: 7 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from slkcpop4.slkc.uswest.net (slkcpop4.slkc.uswest.net [206.81.128.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3F48237B66D for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 09:22:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 29842 invoked by alias); 15 Oct 2000 16:22:02 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org@fixme Received: (qmail 29822 invoked by uid 0); 15 Oct 2000 16:22:01 -0000 Received: from kdialup216.slkc.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (207.224.202.216) by slkcpop4.slkc.uswest.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 2000 16:22:01 -0000 Message-ID: <39E9D8AD.2518D6C3@uswest.net> Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 10:17:49 -0600 From: Joe Warner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Cc: lnx-bbc@linuxcare.com, freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: newbie questions on the BBC References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >1) Is there a place where I can find an archive of this mailing list? >Linuxcare doesn't mention one, at least not anywhere I've looked... http://docs.freebsd.org/mail/ http://docs.freebsd.org/mail/current/ http://docs.freebsd.org/mail/current/freebsd-newbies.html >2) Has anyone here successfully built the BBC from source? I'd like to add a >whole bunch of stuff to it, especially given the fact that I'm just burning it >onto a normal sized CD-R. Upon downloading the sources from Linuxcare, all I >found was a few scripts that looked very site-dependent, and of course the >sources for all the programs on the BBC. I don't have any experience with building a BBS but this may be a helpful link->http://www.bbbs.net/ Joe Chris wrote: > Hello everyone, > > 1) Is there a place where I can find an archive of this mailing list? > Linuxcare doesn't mention one, at least not anywhere I've looked... > > 2) Has anyone here successfully built the BBC from source? I'd like to add a > whole bunch of stuff to it, especially given the fact that I'm just burning it > onto a normal sized CD-R. Upon downloading the sources from Linuxcare, all I > found was a few scripts that looked very site-dependent, and of course the > sources for all the programs on the BBC. > > thanks, > > -chris > -- > "Meat. They're made out of meat." > > "It's better than bad, it's good!" > > Chris Danis screech@mad.scientist.com > screechco@home.com > dadanish@usa.net -- FreeBSD = The Power to Serve ..Simply put = FreeBSD Rocks! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Oct 15 9:57:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.ovis.net (ns1.ovis.net [207.0.147.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 666A337B66C for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 09:57:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ovis.net (s2.pm5.ovis.net [207.0.147.69]) by ns1.ovis.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08067; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 12:55:35 -0400 Message-ID: <39E9E3DE.9FF4DA71@ovis.net> Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 13:05:34 -0400 From: Steve Kudlak Reply-To: chromexa@ovis.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD ezn/58/n (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joe Warner Cc: Sue Blake , Rick Hamell , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Newbies web page [was: -newbies] References: <39E86BC9.4FA97AC1@uswest.net> <20001015034050.E2537@welearn.com.au> <39E8CA77.6EE4B0C7@uswest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Joe Warner wrote: > >When you join -newbies you get a brief run-down, and then the FAK > >is posted once a week. What do you want, daily? > > No. How about every 5 days? > > Sue Blake wrote: > > > (First, I'd like to request that freebsd-chat be removed from the > > headers of replies. This is a freebsd-newbies discussion, and newbies > > might not realise that posting to several lists at once is generally > > discouraged. FreeBSD-chat is mostly for non-FreeBSD chat that spills > > over from the technical lists where it becomes off topic there.) > > > > On Fri, Oct 13, 2000 at 07:52:00AM +0000, Rick Hamell wrote: > > > > > > (and someone else wrote...) > > > > > > > Maybe it would help if Sue's "FreeBSD Newbies First Aid Kit" was > > > > posted more often? > > > > When you join -newbies you get a brief run-down, and then the FAK > > is posted once a week. What do you want, daily? > > > > > Yes, we also should try to get the -newbies Web Page updated... > > > http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies. > > > > All you need to do is send me ideas for change, and it'll be done. > > I've mentioned this to newbies over and over. Nobody has ever done so!! > > > > We do need to have a central starting point for newbies on the FreeBSD > > web site. While I've received many notes of appreciation, the support > > for this, in terms of contributions suggestions or ideas, has been > > consistently underwhelming. > > > > You guys have to learn that you are not consumers. You get what you > > want by collaborating on it and then getting up and _doing_ it, or > > at least helping out those who are already doing stuff. > > This is the real world. You don't have no Mummy round no more. > > Live with it. Learn to thrive on it. > > > > -- > > > > Regards, > > -*Sue*- > > > > > > -- > > FreeBSD = The Power to Serve > ..Simply put = FreeBSD Rocks! > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message At the risk of running to into trouble I will say I think a low level Mummy in the form of a web page would be a great idea. It could [GASP!] answer a few simple questions and point people off in the right direction, like reading manuals rather than fire away with questions. Whether in "newbies" or "questions" a web page or two with the basics of how to set up cron and at jobs and a few pointers to asking good questions would be helfpul in addition to good literature. I come from a kinder gentler universe, so marine corps "Get Used to It" is something I think shouldslowly fade from*nix. Have Fun, Sends Steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Oct 15 10:39:43 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.ovis.net (ns1.ovis.net [207.0.147.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D1EC37B502 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 10:39:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ovis.net (s2.pm5.ovis.net [207.0.147.69]) by ns1.ovis.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10464; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 13:38:16 -0400 Message-ID: <39E9EDDF.94B7CA73@ovis.net> Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 13:48:15 -0400 From: Steve Kudlak Reply-To: chromexa@ovis.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD ezn/58/n (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Johnson Cc: Rick Hamell , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: -newbies References: <39E6E839.3A0EC2B6@acuson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David Johnson wrote: > Rick Hamell wrote: > > > > FreeBSD-newbies needs to be removed. I've been on it since it was > > created and can say that it is not living up to it's orginal purpose. If I > > remeber right, and a quick check of the archives seems to confirm, > > -newbies was created only if no questions were asked there. In the last > > year or two it has been a low-traffic list. Most every post across it has > > either been a cross-post, OR a question! > > Recheck your archives. Questions are allowed, just not technical > questions. Questions like "how to configure X" are a no-no, but > questions like "what window managers should I check out" is okay. > Overall, I wouldn't say that "most" every post was wrong. Maybe 25% were > misguided. In the interests of helping newbies, occasional posts on the > order of "the kids are misbehaving" is not constructive. > > Perhaps the problem is that the name is wrong. In every other set of > mailing lists, -newbies is for newbies with questions. Maybe the name > -newbies-chat would indicate that the list is for newbies, yet not for > questions... > > -- > David Johnson > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message I dunno if it is a good thing to post to the whole group. But here goes...As I look over the various *nix groups. So far the FreeBSD group is most hlpful and informative.Sometimes things wwander off topic but over-all it seems pretty good. The newbie stuff ends upoverall in newbies, and the hacker stuff in hackers. There is some drift but it just doen't seem that bad, at least to the level of hue and cry it has raised. More newbie discussion seems to be happening that misplaced messages. Everythime one has a strong rule bound area those rules are going to get transgressed. Some of the rules do seem a bit petty, but serve someone of a good pupose. Maybe we do need a a newbie question list. Have Fun, Sends Steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Oct 15 11:15:49 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mailb.telia.com (mailb.telia.com [194.22.194.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C6AF37B66F for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 11:15:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ents02 (t4o90p76.telia.com [195.67.217.196]) by mailb.telia.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA18948; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 20:15:22 +0200 (CEST) From: "James A Wilde" To: "Joe Warner" , "Sue Blake" Cc: "Rick Hamell" , Subject: RE: Newbies web page [was: -newbies] Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 20:15:58 +0200 Message-ID: <000001c036d3$f7b9eb50$8208a8c0@iqunlimited.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <39E8CA77.6EE4B0C7@uswest.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Joe Warner > Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2000 23:05 > To: Sue Blake > Cc: Rick Hamell; freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: Newbies web page [was: -newbies] > > > > >When you join -newbies you get a brief run-down, and then the FAK > >is posted once a week. What do you want, daily? > > No. How about every 5 days? That was a joke, right? I didn't see the smiley. mvh/regards James To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Oct 15 11:31:23 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mailb.telia.com (mailb.telia.com [194.22.194.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6907A37B503 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 11:31:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ents02 (t2o90p72.telia.com [195.67.216.192]) by mailb.telia.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA29683 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 20:31:17 +0200 (CEST) From: "James A Wilde" Cc: Subject: RE: -newbies Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 20:31:53 +0200 Message-ID: <000101c036d6$308be670$8208a8c0@iqunlimited.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Rick Hamell > Sent: Friday, October 13, 2000 09:52 > To: Joe Warner > Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: -newbies > This comment is not particularly directed to Rick, rather to the thread. Are there many people who actually know from which list a message comes? In an earlier life messages from all the lists I subscribed to (-newbies, -questions and -security) ended up in 'Inbox'. At a later stage I made a rule which sends everything from *@freebsd.org to a folder called 'FreeBSD incoming' to distinguish it from Bugtraq and more personal stuff. From there most of it goes to the bit bucket but some messages go to 'FreeBSD to keep' and a very few to other folders with names of topics which particularly interest me. But it came as a surprise to me to learn that that long thread on a FreeBSD magazine had originated in newbies. Am I the only one who doesn't much bother which list a message comes from and usually doesn't know - without checking the header? mvh/regards James To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Oct 15 12: 0:55 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from heorot.1nova.com (sub24-23.member.dsl-only.net [63.105.24.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3B3F37B66F for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 12:00:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 7FA9E328F; Sat, 14 Oct 2000 11:24:17 +0000 (GMT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61D1C328E; Sat, 14 Oct 2000 11:24:17 +0000 (GMT) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 11:24:17 +0000 (GMT) From: Rick Hamell To: James A Wilde Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: -newbies In-Reply-To: <000101c036d6$308be670$8208a8c0@iqunlimited.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Well personally I'm subscribed to at 20 different mailing lists. Many of them fairly high traffic. I almost always check the headers out of habit. Some of the lists I subscribe to are very picky about being on topic, so if you have to be careful not to post something that will go off topic. :) Rick ******************************************************************* Rick's FreeBSD Web page http://heorot.1nova.com/freebsd Ace Logan's Hardware Guide http://www.shatteredcrystal.net/hardware ***FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! http://www.freebsd.org On Sun, 15 Oct 2000, James A Wilde wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > > [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Rick Hamell > > Sent: Friday, October 13, 2000 09:52 > > To: Joe Warner > > Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG > > Subject: Re: -newbies > > > This comment is not particularly directed to Rick, rather to the thread. > > Are there many people who actually know from which list a message comes? In > an earlier life messages from all the lists I subscribed to > (-newbies, -questions and -security) ended up in 'Inbox'. At a later stage > I made a rule which sends everything from *@freebsd.org to a folder called > 'FreeBSD incoming' to distinguish it from Bugtraq and more personal stuff. > >From there most of it goes to the bit bucket but some messages go to > 'FreeBSD to keep' and a very few to other folders with names of topics which > particularly interest me. > > But it came as a surprise to me to learn that that long thread on a FreeBSD > magazine had originated in newbies. Am I the only one who doesn't much > bother which list a message comes from and usually doesn't know - without > checking the header? > > mvh/regards > > James > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Oct 15 14:37:19 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from imo-d01.mx.aol.com (imo-d01.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E054937B66C for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 14:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Westoned420@aol.com by imo-d01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.31.) id n.a7.833bc76 (9651) for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 17:37:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Westoned420@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 17:37:12 EDT Subject: Another one... To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 120 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hey, I am a 17 High School and a FreeBSD newbie. I am very interested in the OS and many of it's applications. I am obviously new to the environment and need help with some things. I would also like to get involved with any FreeBSD/UNIX projects and would love to get some useful feedback... weston- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Oct 15 15:56:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from betelgeuse.starshine.org (betelgeuse.in.starshine.org [216.240.40.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D727C37B66D for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 15:56:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from star@localhost) by betelgeuse.starshine.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/SuSE Linux 8.9.3-0.1) id OAA19941; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 14:48:32 -0700 From: Heather Message-Id: <200010152148.OAA19941@betelgeuse.starshine.org> Subject: Re: newbie questions on the BBC In-Reply-To: <39E9D8AD.2518D6C3@uswest.net> from Joe Warner at "Oct 15, 2000 10:17:49 am" To: Joe Warner Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 14:48:04 -0700 (PDT) Cc: Chris , lnx-bbc@linuxcare.com, freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL60 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >1) Is there a place where I can find an archive of this mailing list? > >Linuxcare doesn't mention one, at least not anywhere I've looked... > > http://docs.freebsd.org/mail/ > > http://docs.freebsd.org/mail/current/ > > http://docs.freebsd.org/mail/current/freebsd-newbies.html Answering the wrong question: Er, I have no idea how freebsd-newbies got involved here - since the Linuxcare Bootable Business Card (LBBC) is a *linux* cd image, sized approx 40 Mb... Asking one, though: Although, if anyone knows of a minidisc image for freeBSD I am interested in getting ahold of it. Not PicoBSD either. That thing drove me nuts when when I needed to use it - and I ended up using another OS to rescue my BSD box :( A real itty-bitty copy of something that can use normal freeBSD binaries. Answering the right question: I've been keeping a personal copy of the lbbc list in mbox format, but I don't know if I missed a few before I joined it. As far as I know it's not archived anywhere on the open web - but it'd be a good idea for Linuxcare to do so, if the list members are okay with it. This has been asked before, after all... Even though I have the ability, I haven't opened up an archive of it myself, because I really don't think private mailing lists should be made public to the open web without some sort of warning. > >2) Has anyone here successfully built the BBC from source? I'd like to >> add a whole bunch of stuff to it, especially given the fact that I'm >> just burning it onto a normal sized CD-R. Upon downloading the sources >> from Linuxcare, all I found was a few scripts that looked very >> site-dependent, and of course the sources for all the programs on >> the BBC. > > I don't have any experience with building a BBS but this may be a > helpful link->http://www.bbbs.net/ > > Joe Answering the wrong question: BBS (bulletin board system) is no relation to the BBC, but I suppose that you could hack one together via the telnet feature on it. Answering the right one: There is a sourceforge project dedicated to creating a normal-sized-CD distro based on the LBBC core - lubbock.sourceforge.net. (try saying lbbc. ick. LuBBoCk. Ah, much better :D ) That should be a lot more buildable, and you can join others interested in the same thing. There's an Irish Linux User Group that made some LBBC modifications for certain net services and ISP connectivity, which you might want to look at. But, I have to hunt my folder to find their URL, and they are still BBC-sized, so maybe you are not as interested in that. Heather Stern -*- star@ (personal) -*- starshine.org - Sr. Dev. Engr -*- Tuxtops, Inc. - Linux on Laptops! -*- tuxtops.com ----- - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Oct 15 18:36:17 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.ovis.net (ns1.ovis.net [207.0.147.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C07E37B66C for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 18:36:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ovis.net (s41.pm5.ovis.net [207.0.147.107]) by ns1.ovis.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08523; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:34:51 -0400 Message-ID: <39EA5D96.C893C572@ovis.net> Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:44:55 -0400 From: Steve Kudlak Reply-To: chromexa@ovis.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD ezn/58/n (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: James A Wilde Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: -newbies References: <000101c036d6$308be670$8208a8c0@iqunlimited.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org James A Wilde wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > > [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Rick Hamell > > Sent: Friday, October 13, 2000 09:52 > > To: Joe Warner > > Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG > > Subject: Re: -newbies > > > This comment is not particularly directed to Rick, rather to the thread. > > Are there many people who actually know from which list a message comes? In > an earlier life messages from all the lists I subscribed to > (-newbies, -questions and -security) ended up in 'Inbox'. At a later stage > I made a rule which sends everything from *@freebsd.org to a folder called > 'FreeBSD incoming' to distinguish it from Bugtraq and more personal stuff. > >From there most of it goes to the bit bucket but some messages go to > 'FreeBSD to keep' and a very few to other folders with names of topics which > particularly interest me. > > But it came as a surprise to me to learn that that long thread on a FreeBSD > magazine had originated in newbies. Am I the only one who doesn't much > bother which list a message comes from and usually doesn't know - without > checking the header? > > mvh/regards > > James > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message Well let me tell me story. :) I poked around the various *nix mailing lists. And took something of a peek or something of a peek and an intermediate look at things relating to LINUX, FreeBSD and other things. Some seemed liked squabbling 10 year olds, or close social groups of "x-clubs" where "y's are Ok as long as they tiptoe around the dominant group. I didn't find this here much at all. The "Newbies with Newbies" sounded a little weird to my sensibilities. So of like those "lock down dances " they have around here were they lock teenagers with other teeneagers. But in this case it got honored in the breech, but it seemed to have no harm seems to have been done. So I coudln't see what all the alarm was about. It seems nice to have a central place to ask questions, works for me seems to be OK with me. What is a little grating is the"deal with it" sort of attiyude, artributable to no one person, but it is the idea that floarted around here when I learned Unix in a university environment. It seems to make it a bit more unfriendly but there is at least a little better. As far as the BSD mag, I thought that was a bewbiw sort of thing. I have seen more people learn variou operating sytems out of magazines than some manuals. Whetherit would fly I dunno. I think now I will gobackto lurking andreading. Have Fun, Sends Steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Oct 15 21: 0:16 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from usfamily.net (xt1.xtlab.com [207.225.145.251]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E39CC37B503 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:00:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [216.160.33.133] by usfamily.net (Zsmtp MTA v8.0.5) with SMTP id com for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 22:55:55 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <000c01c03725$73990660$0230a9c0@wins> From: "Matthew Rude" To: Subject: booting problem Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 22:59:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C036FB.8A11FDE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C036FB.8A11FDE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable when ever i install FreeBSD on my computer after its done installing it = will not boot at all lilo dosent start or anything do you have anyideas = i cant get it to boot from the hard drive no mater what i do redhat works just fine -Matt ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $7.99/mo! ------ ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C036FB.8A11FDE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

when ever i install FreeBSD on my = computer after=20 its done installing it will not boot at all lilo dosent start or = anything do you=20 have anyideas i cant get it to boot from the hard drive no mater what i=20 do
 
redhat works just fine
-Matt


------ USFamily.Net - Unlimited Internet - From $7.99/mo! ------

------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C036FB.8A11FDE0-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Oct 15 22:47:21 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail12.intelnet.net.gt (mail12.intelnet.net.gt [216.230.128.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A292C37B66C for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 22:47:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genopre (UD182-134.intelnet.net.gt [216.230.134.182] (may be forged)) by mail12.intelnet.net.gt (Pro-8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA19485 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 23:44:54 +0600 (GMT) Message-ID: <001201c0372c$3fec18a0$b686e6d8@genopre.net.gt> From: "Inskip Thomas C." To: Subject: subscribe Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 23:47:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C03702.375D5660" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C03702.375D5660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable subscribe FreeBSD-newbies ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C03702.375D5660 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
subscribe=20 FreeBSD-newbies
------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C03702.375D5660-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 16 1:34:44 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from smtp2.tbv.se (smtp2.tbv.se [193.15.92.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F00037B66C for ; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 01:34:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by smtp2.tbv.se (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA91242; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:34:35 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from james.wilde@tbv.se) Received: from UNKNOWN(193.15.92.37), claiming to be "tbvhks12" via SMTP by smtp2.tbv.se, id smtpde91240; Mon Oct 16 10:34:28 2000 From: "James A Wilde" To: , Subject: RE: Another one... Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:37:05 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of > Westoned420@aol.com > > > Hey, Sounds like you are Swedish! > > I am a 17 High School and a FreeBSD newbie. I am very > interested in the > OS and many of it's applications. I am obviously new to the > environment and > need help with some things. Welcome, Weston. Read Sue Blake's First Aid Kit which appears in this list about once a week for hints on how to use this and other FreeBSD lists. It is available on-line but I don't have the URL handy. Another good page is: http://www.se.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html ... and Rick Hamell will be along soon to give you the URL of his newbie site which I have at home. And you'll quickly find lots more. Read Greg Lehey's introduction to how to ask and answer questions which pops up from time to time in here or in -questions and - I think - is available from the newbie page mentioned above. Don't be afraid to ask all your technical questions in the -questions mailing list (and not in here) for a very good reason which I only learnt this weekend. Everyone is very tolerant in that list even though some of the answers you will get are what I call poetic - in other words VERY concise and concentrated information. Questions in here should be of the 'any recommendations for a good window manager' type rather than 'how do I fix the shooblink so that my wangledodger displays a green background' > I would also like to get involved with any > FreeBSD/UNIX projects and would love to get some useful feedback... Stick around a while and find the level of competence you feel comfortable with and something will suggest itself. A good beginning is lurking in -questions and answering the ones you can, cos there are always people who know less than you do about something. Once again, welcome. Have fun. mvh/regards James To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 16 7:52: 5 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from uswgco34.uswest.com (uswgco34.uswest.com [199.168.32.123]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C45A137B66D for ; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 07:52:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from egate-ne2.uswc.uswest.com (egate-ne2.uswc.uswest.com [151.117.64.200]) by uswgco34.uswest.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id e9GEpsS19645; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 08:51:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from duntx003.litel.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by egate-ne2.uswc.uswest.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id e9GEps900770; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 09:51:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: by DUNTX003 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <46Y6LMAR>; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:52:16 -0400 Message-ID: <9D35FA2F8EFCD111BA5A00805FA75E87084645FF@fdntx001> From: "Cribbins, Jason" To: Sue Blake Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Newbies web page [was: -newbies] Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:45:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I may be mistaken but I believe about 2 years ago you were the one who replied to a question I posted to -questions and told me that my question was of a beginner question which should be posted to -newbies. You stated -questions was for experienced users with very technical questions (not exact quote...was long time ago but that's what I took from the message). What exactly is the purpose of -newbies then. Is it different then it was back when I started out? or is it the same and I was misdirected/misunderstood the list usage. For the Record: My question was about hardware compatibility with FreeBSD 2.2.5. The question was never answered in -questions because it seemed -newbies was brand new and they wanted everyone to get everyone in the habit of using -newbies for such questions. -newbies offered answers to my questions although it wasn't what I wanted to hear. I have been away from FreeBSD until 3.3 when I bought a CDROM then never it. Recently I installed 4.0 from FTP and am currently playing with 4.1 and 4.1.1 to get the computability I need. I have less than 6 months of composite experience using this or any Unix like system over that time so I do consider myself a "new user" but no longer an "extreme beginner." -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG [mailto:owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Sue Blake Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2000 1:41 PM To: Rick Hamell Cc: Joe Warner; freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Newbies web page [was: -newbies] (First, I'd like to request that freebsd-chat be removed from the headers of replies. This is a freebsd-newbies discussion, and newbies might not realise that posting to several lists at once is generally discouraged. FreeBSD-chat is mostly for non-FreeBSD chat that spills over from the technical lists where it becomes off topic there.) On Fri, Oct 13, 2000 at 07:52:00AM +0000, Rick Hamell wrote: > > (and someone else wrote...) > > > Maybe it would help if Sue's "FreeBSD Newbies First Aid Kit" was > > posted more often? When you join -newbies you get a brief run-down, and then the FAK is posted once a week. What do you want, daily? > Yes, we also should try to get the -newbies Web Page updated... > http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies. All you need to do is send me ideas for change, and it'll be done. I've mentioned this to newbies over and over. Nobody has ever done so!! We do need to have a central starting point for newbies on the FreeBSD web site. While I've received many notes of appreciation, the support for this, in terms of contributions suggestions or ideas, has been consistently underwhelming. You guys have to learn that you are not consumers. You get what you want by collaborating on it and then getting up and _doing_ it, or at least helping out those who are already doing stuff. This is the real world. You don't have no Mummy round no more. Live with it. Learn to thrive on it. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 16 8:16:47 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from heorot.1nova.com (sub24-23.member.dsl-only.net [63.105.24.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 828FB37B66E for ; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 08:16:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 082A8328F; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 07:40:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9569328E; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 07:40:10 +0000 (GMT) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 07:40:10 +0000 (GMT) From: Rick Hamell Cc: Westoned420@aol.com, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Another one... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > http://www.se.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html > > ... and Rick Hamell will be along soon to give you the URL of his newbie > site which I have at home. And you'll quickly find lots more. Read Greg > Lehey's introduction to how to ask and answer questions which pops up from > time to time in here or in -questions and - I think - is available from the > newbie page mentioned above. I certainly will.. glad to find that people think it's helpful... :) http://heorot.1nova.com/freebsd is the link. Suggestions are welcome and appreciated! Rick ******************************************************************* Rick's FreeBSD Web page http://heorot.1nova.com/freebsd Ace Logan's Hardware Guide http://www.shatteredcrystal.net/hardware ***FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 16 10:42:17 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (f116.pav1.hotmail.com [64.4.31.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 151BF37B674 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:42:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:42:14 -0700 Received: from 152.163.201.204 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 17:42:14 GMT X-Originating-IP: [152.163.201.204] From: "derchung lin" To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: ppp to MSN and/or AOL? Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 17:42:14 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Oct 2000 17:42:14.0681 (UTC) FILETIME=[6BA38890:01C03798] Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Microsoft and AOL are my Internet service providers. I have problem connecting from a PC with FreeBSD to Microsft using ppp. When I tried ppp xxx and term and then atd2680582 (Microsoft phone # in my area), I got prompt for user name and password. After that I got "bad password". This happened when I tried another connection to AOL account. Any help? Thanks. Tom _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 16 10:52:49 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from smtppop3pub.verizon.net (smtppop3pub.gte.net [206.46.170.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC6E137B66F for ; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:52:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gte.net (tamqfl1-ar1-200-230.biz.dsl.gtei.net [4.35.200.230]) by smtppop3pub.verizon.net with ESMTP ; id MAA31529607 Mon, 16 Oct 2000 12:48:38 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <39EB4089.384B87FB@gte.net> Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 13:53:13 -0400 From: Tom Collins X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en]C-AOL (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: derchung lin Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ppp to MSN and/or AOL? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org For sure AOL uses proprietary software and you CANNOT log in without it just using your normal username & password. Don't know if MSN does the same tho. Tom Collins derchung lin wrote: > Microsoft and AOL are my Internet service providers. > I have problem connecting from a PC with FreeBSD to Microsft using ppp. > When I tried ppp xxx and term and then atd2680582 (Microsoft phone # in my > area), I got prompt for user name and password. After that I got "bad > password". This happened when I tried another connection to AOL account. > > Any help? Thanks. > > Tom > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 16 11:14:58 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from heorot.1nova.com (sub24-23.member.dsl-only.net [63.105.24.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C910137B672 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 11:14:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 7E602328F; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 10:38:18 +0000 (GMT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60980328E; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 10:38:18 +0000 (GMT) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 10:38:18 +0000 (GMT) From: Rick Hamell Cc: derchung lin , freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ppp to MSN and/or AOL? In-Reply-To: <39EB4089.384B87FB@gte.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > For sure AOL uses proprietary software and you CANNOT log in without it just > using your normal username & password. Don't know if MSN does the same tho. > Tom Collins It does, I believe... you might want to ask on -questions where such questions belong. (You'll get more answers from a lot more knowledegable people, somebody there may have done whay you're trying.) Though you may find that your answer is going to be "get a real Internet Provider." :) Rick ******************************************************************* Rick's FreeBSD Web page http://heorot.1nova.com/freebsd Ace Logan's Hardware Guide http://www.shatteredcrystal.net/hardware ***FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 16 12:32: 3 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from echunga.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A328737B66D for ; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 12:31:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from grog@localhost) by sydney.worldwide.lemis.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) id e9E4oaP00318; Sat, 14 Oct 2000 15:50:36 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from grog) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 15:50:36 +1100 From: Greg Lehey To: Livia Admin , David Johnson , ML Duke Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: anyone tried this? Message-ID: <20001014155036.A275@sydney.worldwide.lemis.com> References: <20001013112858.A3299@livia.netfoo.org> <20001013112858.A3299@livia.netfoo.org> <39E6EEF0.CAB9D949@acuson.com> <20001013112858.A3299@livia.netfoo.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <20001013112858.A3299@livia.netfoo.org>; from kreaper@livia.netfoo.org on Fri, Oct 13, 2000 at 11:28:58AM +0800 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [Format recovered--see http://www.lemis.com/email/email-format.html] On Friday, 13 October 2000 at 11:28:58 +0800, Livia Admin wrote: > if anyone of you tried linux or installing linux... is there a way > of installing freebsd from just a DOS-prompt and hardisk, without > CD-DRIVE and DISK-DRIVE. is there something like "LOADLIN" in > freebsd to just load/boot the kernel from dos? > > thanks > i'm trying to install it but dont know how to start without floppy or cd There used to be a program which would boot from MS-DOS, whatever that may now be. It didn't work from "Windows", whatever that may be (there are at least 5 different platforms with that name, and some base on MS-DOS). From "The Complete FreeBSD", third edition: Installing from a Microsoft partition _____________________________________ On the Intel architecture it's also possible to install from a primary Microsoft partition on the first disk. At the moment, it's not possible to install from extended partitions. To prepare for installation from an Microsoft partition, copy the files from the distribution into a directory called \FREEBSD. For example, to do a minimal installation of FreeBSD from Microsoft using files copied from a CD-ROM mounted on E:, you might do something like this: C> MKDIR C:\FREEBSD C> XCOPY /S E:\BIN C:\FREEBSD\BIN C> XCOPY /S E:\FLOPPIES C:\FREEBSD\FLOPPIES You need the directory FLOPPIES because that's where sysinstall looks for the boot.flp, the first image in every installation. The only required directory is bin. You can include as many other directories as you want, but be sure to maintain the directory structure. In other words, if you also wanted to install XF86312 and manpages, you would copy them to C:\FREEBSD\XF86312 and C:\FREEBSD\MANPAGES. The trouble is, nobody knows if it still works, and not many of us care. On Friday, 13 October 2000 at 11:16:00 +0000, David Johnson wrote: > Livia Admin wrote: >> >> if anyone of you tried linux or installing linux... is there a way >> of installing freebsd from just a DOS-prompt and hardisk, without >> CD-DRIVE and DISK-DRIVE. is there something like "LOADLIN" in >> freebsd to just load/boot the kernel from dos? > > Sorry, kreaper, but you're about to be used as an example :-) > > In the growing debate over the continuing existance of freebsd-newbies, > the number one complaint is that questions are asked. The list charter > says that "finding and using resources and asking for help elsewhere" > and "moral support" are okay. Some questions are certainly okay, while > others are forbidden. > > kreaper's post straddle's the fence. > > On one hand he is asking a technical question on how to load FreeBSD on > a certain configuration. But on the other hand he is asking for the > location of the path leading to a destination. The questin was *not* > "how do I install FreeBSD from a DOS prompt?", but rather "is it > possible?" > > Now, a good netizen of -newbies would reply with a terse "yes" or "no", > and a frustrated netizen would reply "don't ask questions". > > But would a reply on the order of "take a look at the xxx utility, it's > described in the FAQ, it might be what you need" be way off base? If it > is, then certainly nuke -newbies out of existance. But I don't think so. > And neither do I think all list members should be punished for the > misdeeds of a few (as seems to be the commonly proposed solution). > > As for a a LOADLIN analogue: "I don't know." I think you've made exactly the right point. On Friday, 13 October 2000 at 9:57:09 -0600, ML Duke wrote: >> if anyone of you tried linux or installing linux... >> is there a way of installing freebsd from just a DOS-prompt > > Think I might know the answer to this one: No. Well, I think the correct answer is a definite "possibly". ---------------------------------------------------------------------- As David mentions, we have a problem with -newbies. This question belonged on -questions, but it's not always clear that that's the right place. When newbies was created, Sue promised that people wouldn't ask technical questions on -newbies, and I promised not to answer them if they were asked. But if I hadn't, you might not have had the right answer. There are three very good reasons to ask questions only on -questions: 1. More people will see the question, and the chance of getting an answer is better. 2. More people will see the answers, so it's more worthwhile to send a good answer. 3. The chance of getting a *correct* answer is better. Somebody else suggested we should change the name of newbies, to something like "newbies-chat". That's a bit of a mouthful, but it describes things better. Greg -- When replying to this message, please take care not to mutilate the original text. For more information, see http://www.lemis.com/email.html Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 16 12:32: 8 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from echunga.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE67737B66C; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 12:32:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from grog@localhost) by sydney.worldwide.lemis.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) id e9E2Q8U05386; Sat, 14 Oct 2000 13:26:08 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from grog) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 13:26:08 +1100 From: Greg Lehey To: Rick Hamell , David Johnson Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: -newbies Message-ID: <20001014132608.A5353@sydney.worldwide.lemis.com> References: <39E6E839.3A0EC2B6@acuson.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: ; from hamellr@heorot.1nova.com on Thu, Oct 12, 2000 at 08:34:20AM +0000 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thursday, 12 October 2000 at 8:34:20 +0000, Rick Hamell wrote: > > FreeBSD-newbies needs to be removed. I've been on it since it was > created and can say that it is not living up to it's orginal purpose. If I > remeber right, and a quick check of the archives seems to confirm, > -newbies was created only if no questions were asked there. In the last > year or two it has been a low-traffic list. Most every post across it has > either been a cross-post, OR a question! Despite my and several other's > efforts to keep it on topic, and questions posted where they belong, it is > somehow attracting questions. Many of which are not even close to being > newbie questions! Indeed. I've been watching this with some concern. A bit of background: newbies arose from some discussions Sue Blake and I had about traffic on -questions. She voiced the opinion that the topics were too intimidating for real newbies, and that we needed a different list. I disagreed, but in the end suggested we try it for a while. In addition, I promised not to answer any questions on -newbies. For a while, every time somebody asked a technical question on the list, Sue would get up and redirect them to -questions, but she hasn't been doing that lately. On Friday, 13 October 2000 at 10:47:21 +0000, David Johnson wrote: > Rick Hamell wrote: >> >> FreeBSD-newbies needs to be removed. I've been on it since it was >> created and can say that it is not living up to it's orginal purpose. If I >> remeber right, and a quick check of the archives seems to confirm, >> -newbies was created only if no questions were asked there. In the last >> year or two it has been a low-traffic list. Most every post across it has >> either been a cross-post, OR a question! > > Recheck your archives. Questions are allowed, just not technical > questions. Questions like "how to configure X" are a no-no, but > questions like "what window managers should I check out" is okay. Right, but the boundaries are fuzzy. First question: Which wm. Reply: fvwm2. Next question: How to I get it to give focus to the windows automatically? See the problem? > Perhaps the problem is that the name is wrong. In every other set of > mailing lists, -newbies is for newbies with questions. Maybe the > name -newbies-chat would indicate that the list is for newbies, yet > not for questions... That sounds reasonable. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 16 21:51:27 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail12.intelnet.net.gt (mail12.intelnet.net.gt [216.230.128.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 143EE37B4CF for ; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 21:51:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genopre (UD2-138.intelnet.net.gt [216.230.138.2] (may be forged)) by mail12.intelnet.net.gt (Pro-8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA12721 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 22:48:52 +0600 (GMT) Message-ID: <007e01c037ed$98128020$6886e6d8@genopre.net.gt> From: "Inskip Thomas C." To: "newbies FreeBSD" Subject: Need ver 4.4 installation help. Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 22:51:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0079_01C037C3.905C6AA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0079_01C037C3.905C6AA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello: =20 I am a UNIX novice! I tried to install FreeBSD 4.4. The=20 results hold some bugs... still. =20 I purchased a DELL L556cx to operate FreeBSD. In=20 installation of the OS from CD-ROM, it found error. I=20 looked into the manuals and found not find either them or the=20 problem fix-it. =20 I reset the BIOS to default. It made the three error=20 msgs on installation. As follows... =20 BTX loader 100 BTX version 1.01 =20 console: internal video/keyboard =20 /stand/sysinstall running as init on VTY0 =20 These error msgs appeared in light gray. The accepted=20 installations appeared in white text. =20 ----------------------- =20 A flash menu appeared with the notice =93Starting Emergency Holographic VTY4.=94 It only appeared for an instant... =20 ----------------------- =20 In addition I received a notice that the video terminal in=20 application during installation was VTY1. As follows... =20 =93You may wish to scroll-lock through the debugging messages=20 on VTY1 with the scroll-lock feature.=94 =20 What is wrong. How do I fix-it? Where is a=20 reference? =20 Thank you for your time and assistance. Tom =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0079_01C037C3.905C6AA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello:
 
I am a UNIX novice!   I = tried to=20 install FreeBSD 4.4.   The
results hold some bugs...=20 still.
 
    I purchased a = DELL L556cx to=20 operate FreeBSD.   In
installation of the OS from CD-ROM, = it found=20 error.   I
looked into the manuals and found not find = either them=20 or the
problem fix-it.
 
    I reset the BIOS = to=20 default.   It made the three error
msgs on=20 installation.   As follows...
 
BTX loader 100 BTX version = 1.01
 
console: internal = video/keyboard
 
/stand/sysinstall running as init on = VTY0
 
These error msgs appeared in light=20 gray.   The accepted
installations appeared in white=20 text.
 
-----------------------
 
A flash menu appeared with the=20 notice
“Starting Emergency Holographic VTY4.”
It only = appeared=20 for an instant...
 
-----------------------
 
In addition I received a notice that = the video=20 terminal in
application during installation was VTY1.   As = follows...
 
“You may wish to scroll-lock = through the=20 debugging messages
on VTY1 with the scroll-lock = feature.”
 
    What is = wrong.  =20 How do I fix-it?   Where is a
reference?
 
Thank you for your time and=20 assistance.
Tom
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0079_01C037C3.905C6AA0-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 16 22:47: 2 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from gray.westgate.gr (gray.westgate.gr [212.205.119.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29BDF37B4C5; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 22:46:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from charon@localhost) by gray.westgate.gr (8.11.1/8.11.1) id e9H5jKC03185; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 08:45:20 +0300 (EEST) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 08:45:20 +0300 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Greg Lehey Cc: Rick Hamell , David Johnson , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: -newbies Message-ID: <20001017084519.B2973@gray.westgate.gr> References: <39E6E839.3A0EC2B6@acuson.com> <20001014132608.A5353@sydney.worldwide.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20001014132608.A5353@sydney.worldwide.lemis.com>; from grog@lemis.com on Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 01:26:08PM +1100 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3A 75 52 EB F1 58 56 0D - C5 B8 21 B6 1B 5E 4A C2 X-URL: http://students.ceid.upatras.gr/~keramida/index.html Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org : Oops! This is being cross-posted. Do we really need to post this in : both of them lists? On Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 01:26:08PM +1100, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Thursday, 12 October 2000 at 8:34:20 +0000, Rick Hamell wrote: > > > > FreeBSD-newbies needs to be removed. I've been on it since it was > > created and can say that it is not living up to it's orginal purpose. If I > > remeber right, and a quick check of the archives seems to confirm, > > -newbies was created only if no questions were asked there. In the last > > year or two it has been a low-traffic list. Most every post across it has > > either been a cross-post, OR a question! Despite my and several other's > > efforts to keep it on topic, and questions posted where they belong, it is > > somehow attracting questions. Many of which are not even close to being > > newbie questions! > > Indeed. I've been watching this with some concern. A bit of > background: newbies arose from some discussions Sue Blake and I had > about traffic on -questions. She voiced the opinion that the topics > were too intimidating for real newbies, and that we needed a different > list. I disagreed, but in the end suggested we try it for a while. > In addition, I promised not to answer any questions on -newbies. For > a while, every time somebody asked a technical question on the list, > Sue would get up and redirect them to -questions, but she hasn't been > doing that lately. I started working with FreeBSD and reading the lists around August 1999, which means I am a newbie in many ways, the same way I am not a newbie in other ways. After hanging around for a while without posting anything, I saw a lot of posting that were in short "you should not post questions here, because -questions is made for exactly this kind of thing". I have also seen people answer questions. In an effort to get the best of both worlds, I tried to come up with a combination of the two, and I ended up posting replies to questions posted in here that include some references that will get the newbie in question started, plus a nice and kind warning that they should post questions to that `other' list from now on. I am probably acting in violation of the list charters, but I can still understand why someone would post a newbie-question to a list called -newbies. I am still unsure if I (or anyone else on -newbies, for that matter) should send newbies asking technical questions away, without at least a reference to get them on their way. I do agree, however, with those who have pointed out that having a single list where "technical questions are asked" is a good thing. But then again, the mailing list search interface in freebsd.org can search in more than one list at once. Ah well. I probably sound kind of confused already. -- Giorgos Keramidas, For my public pgp2 key: finger -l keramida@diogenis.ceid.upatras.gr To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Oct 17 1:46:19 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (phoenix.welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A77F237B4CF for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 01:46:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA33390; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 06:20:45 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from sue) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 06:20:41 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: "Cribbins, Jason" Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Newbies web page [was: -newbies] Message-ID: <20001017062038.K2537@welearn.com.au> Mail-Followup-To: "Cribbins, Jason" , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG References: <9D35FA2F8EFCD111BA5A00805FA75E87084645FF@fdntx001> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <9D35FA2F8EFCD111BA5A00805FA75E87084645FF@fdntx001>; from Cribbins, Jason on Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 10:45:28AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 10:45:28AM -0400, Cribbins, Jason wrote: > I may be mistaken but I believe about 2 years ago you were the one who > replied to a question I posted to -questions and told me that my question > was of a beginner question which should be posted to -newbies. You stated > -questions was for experienced users with very technical questions (not > exact quote...was long time ago but that's what I took from the message). I think everyone here would vouch for the fact that I have never, and would never have encouraged beginner questions in freebsd-newbies :-) There must be some misunderstanding, or maybe there was a misguided person trying to "help" you at the time. I suspect some people confuse it with linux-newbies, which when I saw it was a lively place for linux newbies to misinform each other with impunity. Our mailing lists are quite different, and the free support offered (in freebsd-questions) is more centralised and reliable, something we are very proud of and try to maintain. People make mistakes, newbies make lots of them. Here, that's OK. We have seen incidents of a non-newbie considering himself above the newbies list charter and trying to encourage others to ignore it. That was quickly stopped, because wilfully disobeying list charters can cause people to be banned from lists, if it is serious enough to warrant it. > What exactly is the purpose of -newbies then. Is it different then it was > back when I started out? or is it the same and I was > misdirected/misunderstood the list usage. It has always been a place for non-technical newbie chatter for which there is no other FreeBSD list where it would be tolerated, and to learn things like: - Don't post to a FreeBSD mailing list until you've read its charter - All support questions/answers can, and should, go to freebsd-questions - As a newbie your first stop should be http://www.freebsd.org/newbies.html If you subscribe to freebsd-newbies, you'll be informed of the basics automatically when your subscription is processed, and then you'll get the full information delivered right to your desk every Saturday! People who simply neglected to read the weekly FAK would be unlikely to read things like man pages or the handbook either, maybe not even any replies they got from freebsd-questions. It is often remarked that their problems are of a kind that could not be addressed within the FreeBSD community... but I am willing to help anyone who finds visual impairment a barrier to accessing technical support on our lists or web site. In your case, Jason, somehow you became misled and that is unfortunate. I hope you feel more comfortable now that it has been clarified. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Oct 17 3: 1:34 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (phoenix.welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3325537B4C5 for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 03:01:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA36696; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 20:59:42 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from sue) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 20:59:40 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Greg Lehey Cc: Livia Admin , David Johnson , ML Duke , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: questions [was: anyone tried this?] Message-ID: <20001017205938.O2537@welearn.com.au> Mail-Followup-To: Greg Lehey , Livia Admin , David Johnson , ML Duke , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20001013112858.A3299@livia.netfoo.org> <20001013112858.A3299@livia.netfoo.org> <39E6EEF0.CAB9D949@acuson.com> <20001013112858.A3299@livia.netfoo.org> <20001014155036.A275@sydney.worldwide.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <20001014155036.A275@sydney.worldwide.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 03:50:36PM +1100 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 03:50:36PM +1100, Greg Lehey wrote: > > As David mentions, we have a problem with -newbies. This question > belonged on -questions, but it's not always clear that that's the > right place. When newbies was created, Sue promised that people > wouldn't ask technical questions on -newbies, and I promised not to > answer them if they were asked. But if I hadn't, you might not have > had the right answer. The simple solution is if you see a question wrongly posted to freebsd-newbies, rub out the -newbies and replace it with -questions before replying, maintaining the cc to the original poster of course. People used to do that and it worked well. Your three points and my extra fourth point below take effect then. > There are three very good reasons to ask questions only on -questions: > > 1. More people will see the question, and the chance of getting an > answer is better. > > 2. More people will see the answers, so it's more worthwhile to send > a good answer. > > 3. The chance of getting a *correct* answer is better. 4. People know that a search of the -questions archive will show whether their potential question has ever been answered before, so you save future newbies the embarrassment of asking again. I don't think the occasional question accidentally posted to -newbies is the major cause of problems, I think it's the _replies_ to -newbies that do. That's what leaves them barely answered or escalates them into support threads, and what encourages others to follow a bad example. If you really know enough to answer, then you really know enough to do it in the right place. Remember there's hardly anything a newbie wants more than to be able to help another newbie. Few realise that they can help out in -questions too if they do know the answer, and it can be as easy as changing the header to read -questions instead of -newbies before sending the reply. I used to do that myself, prefacing the reply with something like: [redirected to the support group freebsd-questions] and starting again underneath the question with: I'm a newbie too, but I think you'll need to blah blah blah... Responses to that humble approach ranged from gentle correction to cover my omissions, to confirmation and sometimes praise when my answer was particularly good. By default I and the original asker got copies of replies, and they went into the -questions archives to save and enlighten future generations. Multiple people benefited. (Warning: consistent wrong answers or guesses will make you look bad, so don't try cheating!) > Somebody else suggested we should change the name of newbies, to > something like "newbies-chat". That's a bit of a mouthful, but it > describes things better. That was suggested before the list was created, and I preferred that name, but it was considered that having two hyphens in the name (freebsd-newbies-chat) would upset the pattern, so naming consistency triumphed over communication and we took a very big risk. It doesn't help for me to say "told ya so" now, so I won't :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Oct 17 4:37:14 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from slkcpop4.slkc.uswest.net (slkcpop4.slkc.uswest.net [206.81.128.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7734237B4F9 for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 04:37:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 23733 invoked by alias); 17 Oct 2000 11:37:08 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org@fixme Received: (qmail 23711 invoked by uid 0); 17 Oct 2000 11:37:06 -0000 Received: from badialup114.slkc.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (63.225.236.114) by slkcpop4.slkc.uswest.net with SMTP; 17 Oct 2000 11:37:06 -0000 Message-ID: <39EC38E4.9FEA4B25@uswest.net> Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 05:32:52 -0600 From: Joe Warner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Inskip Thomas C." Cc: newbies FreeBSD Subject: Re: Need ver 4.4 installation help. References: <007e01c037ed$98128020$6886e6d8@genopre.net.gt> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------60304128B0B22723C7E27BBE" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --------------60304128B0B22723C7E27BBE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom, Please send technical questions such as this to FreeBSD-Questions@FreeBSD.org. FreeBSD-Newbies is a discussion forum for newbies. We don't ask for help or answer how-to questions here. Also, these links may be of assistance: http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies/ http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html http://bsdquickstart.freeservers.com/nsmenu.html http://heorot.1nova.com/freebsd/ Thanks, Joe "Inskip Thomas C." wrote: > > Hello: I am a UNIX novice! I tried to install FreeBSD 4.4. The > results hold some bugs... still. I purchased a DELL L556cx to operate > FreeBSD. In > installation of the OS from CD-ROM, it found error. I > looked into the manuals and found not find either them or the > problem fix-it. I reset the BIOS to default. It made the three > error > msgs on installation. As follows... BTX loader 100 BTX version > 1.01 console: internal video/keyboard /stand/sysinstall running as init > on VTY0 These error msgs appeared in light gray. The accepted > installations appeared in white text. ----------------------- A flash > menu appeared with the notice > “Starting Emergency Holographic VTY4.” > It only appeared for an instant... ----------------------- In addition I > received a notice that the video terminal in > application during installation was VTY1. As follows... “You may > wish to scroll-lock through the debugging messages > on VTY1 with the scroll-lock feature.” What is wrong. How do > I fix-it? Where is a > reference? Thank you for your time and assistance. > Tom -- FreeBSD = The Power to Serve ..Simply put = FreeBSD Rocks! --------------60304128B0B22723C7E27BBE Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom,

Please send technical questions such as this to FreeBSD-Questions@FreeBSD.org.

FreeBSD-Newbies is a discussion forum for newbies.
We don't ask for help or answer how-to questions here.

Also, these links may be of assistance:

http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies/

http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html

http://bsdquickstart.freeservers.com/nsmenu.html

http://heorot.1nova.com/freebsd/

Thanks,

Joe
 
 

"Inskip Thomas C." wrote:

  
Hello: I am a UNIX novice!   I tried to install FreeBSD 4.4.   The
results hold some bugs... still.     I purchased a DELL L556cx to operate FreeBSD.   In
installation of the OS from CD-ROM, it found error.   I
looked into the manuals and found not find either them or the
problem fix-it.     I reset the BIOS to default.   It made the three error
msgs on installation.   As follows... BTX loader 100 BTX version 1.01 console: internal video/keyboard /stand/sysinstall running as init on VTY0 These error msgs appeared in light gray.   The accepted
installations appeared in white text. ----------------------- A flash menu appeared with the notice
&ldquo;Starting Emergency Holographic VTY4.&rdquo;
It only appeared for an instant... ----------------------- In addition I received a notice that the video terminal in
application during installation was VTY1.   As follows... &ldquo;You may wish to scroll-lock through the debugging messages
on VTY1 with the scroll-lock feature.&rdquo;     What is wrong.   How do I fix-it?   Where is a
reference? Thank you for your time and assistance.
Tom  

--

    FreeBSD = The Power to Serve
     ..Simply put = FreeBSD Rocks!
  --------------60304128B0B22723C7E27BBE-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Oct 17 6:38: 3 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.smed.com (smtp.smed.com [12.20.51.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 005E337B4F9 for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 06:38:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpgate.shrmed.com (keymaster.smed.com [12.20.51.2]) by smtp.smed.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F61616238 for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:38:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from iesa14.shrmed.com (iesa14.shrmed.com [10.1.99.114]) by smtpgate.shrmed.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04054 for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:37:59 -0400 From: Joe.Warner@smed.com Received: from Deimos.smed.com (unverified) by iesa14.shrmed.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with SMTP id for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:37:52 -0400 Received: by Deimos.smed.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.5 (863.2 5-20-1999)) id 8525697B.004AB824 ; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:36:08 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: SMS To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Message-Id: <8525697B.004AB683.00@Deimos.smed.com> Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 07:38:40 -0600 Subject: UNIX - AS/400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, Does anyone know of a FreeBSD or UNIX client application that will provide TN5250 connectivity to the IBM AS/400 (now iSeries)? Better yet, an application that would provide a session through a web browser? I didn't know if I would have better luck obtaining information on this by posting to -questions but I decided to start here first. Thanks, Joe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Oct 17 22:47:46 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from imo-r10.mail.aol.com (imo-r10.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85A2637B4E5 for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:47:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from YWang2323@aol.com by imo-r10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.31.) id n.df.b21ce1e (4539) for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 01:47:37 -0400 (EDT) From: YWang2323@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 01:47:37 EDT Subject: freeBSD with PacBell's DSL To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 124 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi Since I was suggested to find some "real ISP", because of not being able to connect to MSN and AOL with ppp. I am investigating this approach. Has anybody ever use PacBell's DSL with FreeBSD's ppp? Specifically in San Jose area. Thanks. Derchung Tom Lin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Oct 17 23:57:24 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mooseriver.com (erie.mooseriver.com [205.166.121.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 042E537B4D7 for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:57:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by mooseriver.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) id e9I6vGb14551; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:57:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:57:15 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: Joe.Warner@smed.com Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: UNIX - AS/400 Message-ID: <20001017235715.A13526@mooseriver.com> Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com References: <8525697B.004AB683.00@Deimos.smed.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <8525697B.004AB683.00@Deimos.smed.com>; from Joe.Warner@smed.com on Tue, Oct 17, 2000 at 07:38:40AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Oct 17, 2000 at 07:38:40AM -0600, Joe.Warner@smed.com wrote: > > > Hi, > > Does anyone know of a FreeBSD or UNIX client application that > will provide TN5250 connectivity to the IBM AS/400 (now iSeries)? > > Better yet, an application that would provide a session through > a web browser? > > I didn't know if I would have better luck obtaining information on > this by posting to -questions but I decided to start here first. Try tn5250. It's one of our ports. I have never used it but I know it is there and it compile. I don't get on AS/400s much. Good Luck! Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 4.1 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Oct 18 4:39:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from ruby.he.net (ruby.he.net [216.218.187.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B442837B4E5 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 04:39:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from corten5.pacbell.net (adsl-63-193-247-201.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.193.247.201]) by ruby.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with ESMTP id EAA09486; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 04:39:33 -0700 Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 04:36:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill Schoolcraft X-Sender: bill@corten5 To: YWang2323@aol.com Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freeBSD with PacBell's DSL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At Wed, 18 Oct 2000 it looks like YWang2323@aol.com composed: -->Hi --> -->Since I was suggested to find some "real ISP", because of not being able to -->connect to MSN and AOL with ppp. I am investigating this approach. --> -->Has anybody ever use PacBell's DSL with FreeBSD's ppp? -->Specifically in San Jose area. --> Some attention also needs to be placed in the area of a "STATIC vs DYNAMIC" IP address. Take some time to understand the implications of that and what it means. -- Bill Schoolcraft http://wiliweld.com PO Box 210076 San Francisco, CA 94121 " saevis tranquillus in undis " To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Oct 18 8: 3:53 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from sydney.worldwide.lemis.com (termroom.bsdcon.org [206.55.247.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD0E937B4D7 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 08:03:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from grog@localhost) by sydney.worldwide.lemis.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) id e9I300b01387; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 20:00:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 20:00:00 -0700 From: Greg Lehey To: Livia Admin , David Johnson , ML Duke , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: questions [was: anyone tried this?] Message-ID: <20001017200000.C1250@sydney.worldwide.lemis.com> References: <20001013112858.A3299@livia.netfoo.org> <20001013112858.A3299@livia.netfoo.org> <39E6EEF0.CAB9D949@acuson.com> <20001013112858.A3299@livia.netfoo.org> <20001014155036.A275@sydney.worldwide.lemis.com> <20001017205938.O2537@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <20001017205938.O2537@welearn.com.au>; from sue@welearn.com.au on Tue, Oct 17, 2000 at 08:59:40PM +1000 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tuesday, 17 October 2000 at 20:59:40 +1000, Sue Blake wrote: > On Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 03:50:36PM +1100, Greg Lehey wrote: >> >> As David mentions, we have a problem with -newbies. This question >> belonged on -questions, but it's not always clear that that's the >> right place. When newbies was created, Sue promised that people >> wouldn't ask technical questions on -newbies, and I promised not to >> answer them if they were asked. But if I hadn't, you might not have >> had the right answer. > > The simple solution is if you see a question wrongly posted to > freebsd-newbies, rub out the -newbies and replace it with -questions > before replying, maintaining the cc to the original poster of course. > People used to do that and it worked well. Your three points and my > extra fourth point below take effect then. There are a couple of problems with this: 1. It's the same situation as the original problem: you need to get people to do it. As you observe, most people don't. 2. The other people on -newbies don't see it, so it doesn't set an example. > Remember there's hardly anything a newbie wants more than to be able > to help another newbie. Few realise that they can help out in > -questions too if they do know the answer, and it can be as easy as > changing the header to read -questions instead of -newbies before > sending the reply. I have a feeling that many newbies would feel confident to answer on -newbies, but not on -questions. This does rather sound like the blind leading the blind. >> Somebody else suggested we should change the name of newbies, to >> something like "newbies-chat". That's a bit of a mouthful, but it >> describes things better. > > That was suggested before the list was created, and I preferred that > name, but it was considered that having two hyphens in the name > (freebsd-newbies-chat) would upset the pattern, so naming consistency > triumphed over communication and we took a very big risk. It doesn't > help for me to say "told ya so" now, so I won't :-) Hmm. I checked out our correspondence on this, and found that, at the time, I said to you: > I think that I could summarize the arguments against with "the blind > leading the blind". At least in -questions you have a couple of > one-eyed men. You also have a number of people who can scare > newbies off, sure, but that will happen even if there's a newbies > list. I see we discussed describing the mailing list as "newbie chat", but there was never any discussion of calling it by that name. I still think it would be a good idea. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Oct 18 8:13:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail3.mia.bellsouth.net (mail3.mia.bellsouth.net [205.152.144.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E343137B4CF for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 08:13:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from julioavilez (adsl-61-176-67.mia.bellsouth.net [208.61.176.67]) by mail3.mia.bellsouth.net (3.3.5alt/0.75.2) with SMTP id LAA28435 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:13:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001701c03915$f263d820$1801a8c0@julioavilez> From: "Julio Avilez" To: Subject: Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:13:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C038F4.694B6BA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C038F4.694B6BA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C038F4.694B6BA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 
------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C038F4.694B6BA0-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Oct 18 8:29:50 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from heorot.1nova.com (sub24-23.member.dsl-only.net [63.105.24.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8D0937B4C5 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 08:29:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id DAEEC328F; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 07:52:52 +0000 (GMT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD24D328E; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 07:52:52 +0000 (GMT) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 07:52:52 +0000 (GMT) From: Rick Hamell To: Greg Lehey Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: questions [was: anyone tried this?] In-Reply-To: <20001017200000.C1250@sydney.worldwide.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > I think that I could summarize the arguments against with "the blind > > leading the blind". At least in -questions you have a couple of > > one-eyed men. You also have a number of people who can scare > > newbies off, sure, but that will happen even if there's a newbies > > list. > > I see we discussed describing the mailing list as "newbie chat", but > there was never any discussion of calling it by that name. I still > think it would be a good idea. I still think it should be something like newbie-issues to differentiate it from -chat. Rick ******************************************************************* Rick's FreeBSD Web page http://heorot.1nova.com/freebsd Ace Logan's Hardware Guide http://www.shatteredcrystal.net/hardware ***FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Oct 18 8:37:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from f1node03.rhrz.uni-bonn.de (node03.rhrz.uni-bonn.de [131.220.18.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB6B637B4D7 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 08:37:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from moritz.alleswirdgelber (ascend-tk-p209.dialin.uni-bonn.de [131.220.244.209]) by f1node03.rhrz.uni-bonn.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27026; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:33:44 +0200 Received: from localhost (uzs106@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by moritz.alleswirdgelber (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01853; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 00:55:33 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from uzs106@ibm.rhrz.uni-bonn.de) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 00:55:33 +0200 (CEST) From: Heiko Recktenwald X-Sender: uzs106@moritz.alleswirdgelber To: Sue Blake Cc: Greg Lehey , Livia Admin , David Johnson , ML Duke , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: questions [was: anyone tried this?] In-Reply-To: <20001017205938.O2537@welearn.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I don't think the occasional question accidentally posted to -newbies > is the major cause of problems, I think it's the _replies_ to -newbies But if there were typical newbie questions, they might be interesting to other newbies too. The only thing that surprises from time to time is how "luxurious" the questions were. Howto configure something special in KDE or something similar, that are maybe KDE or whatever newbie questions, but should go to questions or better to a KDE etc list. But what is "luxury" for one is maybe necessity for some other.. Do you think there are special newbie questions ? I think of Annelise Andersons text, for example H. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Oct 18 9:20:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from MailAndNews.com (MailAndNews.com [199.29.68.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 457BE37B4C5; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 09:20:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kch-173-143.tm.net.my [203.106.173.143] (alvn@mailandnews.com) by MailAndNews.com; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 12:20:20 -0400 X-WM-Posted-At: MailAndNews.com; Wed, 18 Oct 00 12:20:20 -0400 Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 23:17:31 +0800 From: Alvn X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.47 Beta/7) Reply-To: Alvn Organization: . X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1488105234.20001018231731@mailandnews.com> To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: d-link 220 nic problem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [cross-posted to newbies + questions] Hello freebsd'ers, i'm trying to install fbsd 4.0 in my office and am having problems with my d-link 220 (isa) nic. i have configured it to io=0x300 and irq=10 but each time i booted after the installation, it says (or something similar): fd0> irq=6 dma=2 ---forgot the rest--- which i realize is the floppy config. really strange (to me). -- Best regards, Alvn mailto:alvn@mailandnews.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Oct 18 9:36:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from heorot.1nova.com (sub24-23.member.dsl-only.net [63.105.24.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC24737B4C5 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 09:36:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 07A65328F; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 08:59:35 +0000 (GMT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8D46328E; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 08:59:35 +0000 (GMT) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 08:59:35 +0000 (GMT) From: Rick Hamell To: Alvn Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: d-link 220 nic problem In-Reply-To: <1488105234.20001018231731@mailandnews.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > [cross-posted to newbies + questions] Please do not cross-post from questions, any technical questions. They all belong in -questions, and everyone there is glad to answer any all questions you may have of a technical nature. (Assuming you provide enough information and are polite. :) Newbies is non-technical list only geared towards newbie non-technical issues. Rick ******************************************************************* Rick's FreeBSD Web page http://heorot.1nova.com/freebsd Ace Logan's Hardware Guide http://www.shatteredcrystal.net/hardware ***FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Oct 18 9:44:36 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mailb.telia.com (mailb.telia.com [194.22.194.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7642D37B4C5 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 09:44:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ents02 (t4o90p110.telia.com [195.67.217.230]) by mailb.telia.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA04251; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 18:44:21 +0200 (CEST) From: "James Wilde" To: "Julio Avilez" , Subject: RE: no subject Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 18:45:04 +0200 Message-ID: <000201c03922$c3fef070$8208a8c0@iqunlimited.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Julio Avilez Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 17:13 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: You'll have to give us a bit more to go on, Julio. :) And BTW, not many people in here like html messages. mvh/regards James To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Oct 18 10:16:33 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from MailAndNews.com (MailAndNews.com [199.29.68.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2A0F37B479 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:16:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kch-173-143.tm.net.my [203.106.173.143] (alvn@mailandnews.com) by MailAndNews.com; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:16:12 -0400 X-WM-Posted-At: MailAndNews.com; Wed, 18 Oct 00 13:16:12 -0400 Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 01:15:49 +0800 From: Alvn X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.47 Beta/7) Reply-To: Alvn Organization: n/a X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <6415203140.20001019011549@mailandnews.com> To: Rick Hamell Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re[2]: d-link 220 nic problem In-reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello Rick, the lists, my apologies. i `assumed` that since i am somewhat a newbie, i'd post my questions here but since its also somewhat -questions related, i posted another there. again, sorry. Tuesday, October 17, 2000, 04:59:35 PM, you wrote: >> [cross-posted to newbies + questions] RH> Please do not cross-post from questions, any technical RH> questions. They all belong in -questions, and everyone there is glad to RH> answer any all questions you may have of a technical nature. (Assuming you RH> provide enough information and are polite. :) Newbies is non-technical RH> list only geared towards newbie non-technical issues. RH> Rick RH> ******************************************************************* RH> Rick's FreeBSD Web page http://heorot.1nova.com/freebsd RH> Ace Logan's Hardware Guide http://www.shatteredcrystal.net/hardware RH> ***FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! http://www.freebsd.org -- Best regards, Alvn mailto:alvn@mailandnews.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Oct 18 10:25:39 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D799137B4C5 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:25:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.47.12]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA2F14; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:28:44 -0700 Message-ID: <39EDDC73.90A9BC85@acuson.com> Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:22:59 -0700 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: YWang2323@aol.com, freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: freeBSD with PacBell's DSL References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org YWang2323@aol.com wrote: > Since I was suggested to find some "real ISP", because of not being able to > connect to MSN and AOL with ppp. I am investigating this approach. > > Has anybody ever use PacBell's DSL with FreeBSD's ppp? > Specifically in San Jose area. I'm hoping that this isn't a "technical" question... I'm using DSL (not PacBell) with FreeBSD, and I have to say that setting it up was far easier than setting up a modem. In terms of PacBell, a friend of mine who uses l***x got the service, then had some problems. It seems that PacBell uses PPPoE (at least his did), so you will need to look in the Handbook and other sources for PPPoE, or ask in -questions. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Oct 18 10:40:58 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from heorot.1nova.com (sub24-23.member.dsl-only.net [63.105.24.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A69237B479 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:40:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 547C6328F; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:04:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 396A9328E; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:04:28 +0000 (GMT) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:04:28 +0000 (GMT) From: Rick Hamell To: Alvn Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Re[2]: d-link 220 nic problem In-Reply-To: <6415203140.20001019011549@mailandnews.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Hello Rick, the lists, > > my apologies. i `assumed` that since i am somewhat a newbie, i'd post my > questions here but since its also somewhat -questions related, i posted > another there. again, sorry. It's quite all right. That is one of things being discussed, and hopefully fixed soon. :) Rick ******************************************************************* Rick's FreeBSD Web page http://heorot.1nova.com/freebsd Ace Logan's Hardware Guide http://www.shatteredcrystal.net/hardware ***FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Oct 18 15: 8:56 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from va1.dslextreme.com (va1.dslextreme.com [63.203.107.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E39237B4CF for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 15:08:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy ( [63.194.57.74] (may be forged)) by va1.dslextreme.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA29120; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:59:43 -0700 Message-ID: <001001c03934$c88fe510$0200000a@proxy.palitzlaw.com> From: "adam" To: "Bill Schoolcraft" Cc: Subject: Re: freeBSD with PacBell's DSL Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:53:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org AHH, PPPOE is a plight on man kind ...I think you should take it upon yourself to instead of trying to find or develop drivers...get rid of PBI, and go with a different ISP. -----Original Message----- From: Bill Schoolcraft To: YWang2323@aol.com Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 4:40 AM Subject: Re: freeBSD with PacBell's DSL >At Wed, 18 Oct 2000 it looks like YWang2323@aol.com composed: > >-->Hi >--> >-->Since I was suggested to find some "real ISP", because of not being able to >-->connect to MSN and AOL with ppp. I am investigating this approach. >--> >-->Has anybody ever use PacBell's DSL with FreeBSD's ppp? >-->Specifically in San Jose area. >--> > >Some attention also needs to be placed in the area of a "STATIC vs >DYNAMIC" IP address. Take some time to understand the implications >of that and what it means. > >-- >Bill Schoolcraft http://wiliweld.com >PO Box 210076 San Francisco, CA 94121 > > " saevis tranquillus in undis " > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Oct 18 21:49:50 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C935C37B4C5; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:49:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by vnode.vmunix.com (Postfix, from userid 1005) id 309DDE; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 00:49:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vnode.vmunix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 182D249A13; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 00:49:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 00:49:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Coleman To: Michael Lucas Cc: Joe Warner , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Magazine? In-Reply-To: <20001002075529.B60850@blackhelicopters.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > When we get enough vendors, the magazine will happen. We'll get > enough vendors when there's enough publicity. A magazine would be > great for publicity. Sort of a three-way chicken-and egg problem; > pick the part you want to attack, and get to work. :) Well, Daemon News has decided to make the first step at breaking the chicken-egg problem. We printed up this months issue special for BSDCon. If you are attending BSDCon, you will get a free copy. If you aren't that luck, you can order them from the Daemon News Mall. http://mall.daemonnews.org/?page=shop/flypage&product_id=832 It was sort of a last minute decision to publish it, inspired alot by this thread. We hope this will break the ice and get things moving. Supplies are limited. I have 125 copies sitting here that weren't sent to BSDCon, so I can guarantee those, but not beyond the next ten minutes. Its first come first served. IF we get a good response and can get the advertisers, we want to continue printing these. (they did cost quite a bit and we are selling them for next to nothing. ) -Chris Coleman To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Oct 20 18:27:51 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (phoenix.welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEDFD37B4C5 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:27:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA57451 for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Sat, 21 Oct 2000 12:30:14 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from sue) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 12:30:14 +1000 (EST) From: Sue Blake Message-Id: <200010210230.MAA57451@phoenix.welearn.com.au> To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD Newbies First Aid Kit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org FreeBSD-Newbies First Aid Kit (This is a regular posting to the FreeBSD-Newbies mailing list. It is also available at http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies/) FreeBSD-Questions@FreeBSD.ORG is the place to send all questions about installing, configuring, running and using FreeBSD. All help requests are handled by FreeBSD-Questions, including newbies questions. FreeBSD-Newbies is different. We don't ask for help or answer how-to questions. It is a discussion forum for newbies. FreeBSD-Newbies provides a place for new FreeBSD users to meet and covers any of the activities of newbies that are not already dealt with elsewhere. Examples include helping each other to learn more on our own, finding and using resources, problem solving techniques, how to seek help elsewhere, how to use mailing lists and which lists to use, general chat, making mistakes, boasting, sharing ideas, stories, moral (but not technical) support, and taking an active part in the FreeBSD community. We take our problems and support questions to freebsd-questions, and use freebsd-newbies to meet others who are doing the same things that we do as newbies. One of the things we do together is learn more effective ways to find help when we need it. Here are some suggestions: When something doesn't work the way you expect 1. First look at the errata for your release of FreeBSD at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/releases/ for the latest information and security advisories. 2. Search the Handbook, FAQ, and mail archives at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/search.html 3. If you still have a question or problem, collect the output of `uname -a' and of any relevant program(s) and email your question to FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG. Mailing lists When you have a problem that you can't solve by yourself, there's only one support mailing list and that's FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG. FreeBSD-questions helps with installation and basic setup as well as more general and advanced questions. You don't have to actually join freebsd-questions before asking a question there. Replies to your question will normally be sent to you personally as well as to the list. Just make sure you have read and followed the guidelines for posting, because you might find them different to what you're used to. If you do subscribe to freebsd-questions you'll have the advantage of seeing all of the recent questions and their answers. Before you post to FreeBSD-questions, please read the guidelines at http://www.lemis.com/questions.html Many of the people who answer FreeBSD-questions are very knowledgeable, but they get frustrated when they get questions which are difficult to understand. http://www.lemis.com/email.html is worth reading too. If you're not sure that you can follow these guidelines, come back and ask the other newbies for help on how to post an effective question to the support mailing list. Maybe your question has been asked before. If you search the mailing list archives at http://www.freebsd.org/search.html first you might get the answer right away. It's always worth trying. Other mailing lists (http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/eresources.html#ERESOURCES-CHARTERS) cover specialised areas and many are more developer-oriented. You'll need to read their charters carefully before participating, but it's probably a good idea to ask on either -newbies or -questions for advice about where to post a more specialised question. FreeBSD-announce is a very low volume read-only list for occasional announcements, such as notice of new releases, and the Really Quick Newsletter. It's worth subscribing to FreeBSD-announce too. Manuals You'll always be expected to show that you have made some effort to use the available documentation before asking for help. That's not always as easy as it sounds! If you know what documentation you need but can't locate it, send a brief query to FreeBSD-questions. If you don't know what you need, always have trouble finding it, or can't make any sense of it when you do, ask some patient newbies to steer you in the right direction. Anyone interested in writing or reviewing documentation for FreeBSD is encouraged to join the FreeBSD Documentation Project. Details are at http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/docproj.html Other resources A resource list is available at http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html to help new and inexperienced FreeBSD users to find relevant information quickly. It includes books, on line documents and tutorials, and links to web pages that other newbies have found useful for learning. If you have a suggestion for good material to be included, please write to freebsd-newbies and tell us about it. But I have seen people asking questions here! It is quite common for people to send the wrong kind of post to a mailing list. Because we're newbies it'll certainly happen here from time to time. The best thing to do if you see a message that doesn't belong on a list is to ignore it. There's always someone around whose job it is to sort these problems out privately. The posts to the lists go straight through, whatever their content. It is going to be confusing for a little while because we're all newbies so we all make mistakes. That's OK. One thing we're going to see a fair bit is people posting questions, believing they're doing the right thing by posting here as newbies, not realising how it works. If someone answers those questions the situation will snowball. There's nothing wrong with helping someone to redirect their question to freebsd-questions, but please do so gently. There's nothing wrong with the occasional mistake either. So all questions, requests for help, etc still go to freebsd-questions as usual. Ours is more of a discussion group, a place where newbies can relax with other newbies and focus more on our successes than on our temporary imperfection. We can talk about things here that are not allowed on freebsd-questions. We're also a bit freer to make the mistakes that we need to make in order to learn. _________________________________________________________________ To Subscribe to FreeBSD-Newbies: Send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "subscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message. Mail sent to freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org appears on the mailing list. _________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message